HHP: Comparing how the Orioles and three selected "peer teams" are spending their money

[PA724_Oriole]

It was actually six times. And he died. I am angry that some folks view it as a tragic accident though. It was not in the United States either. Let's drop this subject in this thread and no more anti USA rhetoric either. Please. Thanks.

Guess I should have assumed he died with the murder suicide comment.

And I won't press this topic any longer but thought something should be said about your comment. I don't know anything about this story. But if that girl wasn't in the wrong, it's disappointing to think there are ppl out there who fell a 18 yr old killed by a drunken idiot isn't tragic.

[hoosiers]

If I am am going to try to learn anything it is going to be from the Cards and John Mozeliak. What a class organization. He has been their GM since 2008 and they have been the playoffs in 5 of the last 6 years.

Year in and year out, going on nearly 20+ years, the Cards have among the easiest schedules in baseball. I had a good amount of research in a post about this a few years ago and it is still true today. For nearly all of that time, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Cincy and ChiCubs have stunk. I know of no team in professional sports with an easier ticket to the post-season than the Cards in that time frame.

[hoosiers]

Great post, Frobby. It is interesting to see how the Os stack up with teams in a similar position payroll-wise, but I don't think we are in a similar position to those teams with arbitration/FA eligible guys. A lot of this is just timing based on when guys were accumulated during AM's talent stocking time here as well as DD's acquisitions (Bud, Chen).

I do think we might have one or two more guys signed to LTCs except for some guys being Boras clients (Wieters) or some guys have uneven production (Davis). Toronto and Cincy made fairly poor LTC commitment decisions and they seem worse off because of it.

[Three Run Homer]

I think that in the post-steroid era the best teams will be the ones with the most talent in years 1-6--in other words, teams with a lot of money tied up in players eligible for arbitration. The Orioles have won with a mix of young players acquired through the draft and international scouting (Wieters, Machado, Chen, Gonzo, Gausman) and shrewd trades (Davis, Jones, Tillman).

The key going forward will be whether DD can maintain the flow of young talent. The O's will need to harvest some extra draft picks from the players that they don't keep past year 6, and they need to make those picks count.

[weams]

I think that in the post-steroid era the best teams will be the ones with the most talent in years 1-6--in other words, teams with a lot of money tied up in players eligible for arbitration. The Orioles have won with a mix of young players acquired through the draft and international scouting (Wieters, Machado, Chen, Gonzo, Gausman) and shrewd trades (Davis, Jones, Tillman).

The key going forward will be whether DD can maintain the flow of young talent. The O's will need to harvest some extra draft picks from the players that they don't keep past year 6, and they need to make those picks count.

A good minor league system can replace two or three regulars each season. Not all the picks need to hit, or even could be expected to. Not all the trades need to be winners. Not all of the international signings need to be valuable. We need to get to the point where we can replace a player or two from the minors each year and sign a free agent or two. Not a high profile one. Just someone who is a major leaguer.

[JayThomas]

Thanks for the work Frobby. Must spread rep. With the cost of free agents today and the fact that almost none of them turn out to be good signings, I don't exactly like the position that we're in. As others have pointed out, it is our bad fortune that 3 of our 2015 FA's are Boras clients. That makes it difficult to lock them up early and extremely expensive to do so later.

I think there's a chance that we get Davis extended. I think he likes it here; I think he really likes playing for Buck; I think the O's could find a meeting place on salary for which he would instruct Boras to take it.

Matt is different. Though I think he also likes being in Baltimore and likes playing for Buck, I think Dan would have a hard time investing enough money in a almost-29-yr old catcher coming of TJ surgery for Matt to overrule Boras to take the deal.

[BohKnowsBmore]

Guess I should have assumed he died with the murder suicide comment.

And I won't press this topic any longer but thought something should be said about your comment. I don't know anything about this story. But if that girl wasn't in the wrong, it's disappointing to think there are ppl out there who fell a 18 yr old killed by a drunken idiot isn't tragic.

I believe he was talking about tragic in the sense of the notion that Taveras was a young talent who tragically lost his life.

[jtschrei]

For all the success DD has had, the organization's ability to develop players remains a problem. True, there's Manny, but after him, who? Schoop. Joseph was a nice story last year. Gausman has major potential, but our farm system is really going to need to produce some quality major leaguers in the next 5 years.

[hoosiers]

For all the success DD has had, the organization's ability to develop players remains a problem. True, there's Manny, but after him, who? Schoop. Joseph was a nice story last year. Gausman has major potential, but our farm system is really going to need to produce some quality major leaguers in the next 5 years.

I disagree with this. DD has traded and forfeited draft picks and traded multiple top 100 players (plus a 5 WAR Jake) to improve the competitiveness of the major league team in 2013 and 2014 - this is very different from our inability to develop players IMO. Those picks and prospects likely all fit into our top 12-15 prospects and would likely result in our having a top 10 farm system.

[Frobby]

I disagree with this. DD has traded and forfeited draft picks and traded multiple top 100 players (plus a 5 WAR Jake) to improve the competitiveness of the major league team in 2013 and 2014 - this is very different from our inability to develop players IMO. Those picks and prospects likely all fit into our top 12-15 prospects and would likely result in our having a top 10 farm system.

Other than Eduardo Rodriguez, who was a top 100 prospect? I think you're overrating the chances that these players and picks would have become productive major leaguers capable of replacing the caliber of players we may lose this offseason. That's really what we are talking about. Nick Delmonico is not a replacement for Chris Davis. Gabriel Lino is not a replacement for Matt Wieters. We did lose two pitching prospects of value, only one of whom is likely to help a major league team in 2016. As to the picks, it's impossible to know if they would have been ready to contribute.

[weams]

Other than Eduardo Rodriguez, who was a top 100 prospect? I think you're overrating the chances that these players and picks would have become productive major leaguers capable of replacing the caliber of players we may lose this offseason. That's really what we are talking about. Nick Delmonico is not a replacement for Chris Davis. Gabriel Lino is not a replacement for Matt Wieters. We did lose two pitching prospects of value, only one of whom is likely to help a major league team in 2016. As to the picks, it's impossible to know if they would have been ready to contribute.

I think Hader has been considered a huge loss by many here. And the loss of three or four very high picks is always relevant to the health of a farm system.

[hoosiers]

Other than Eduardo Rodriguez, who was a top 100 prospect? I think you're overrating the chances that these players and picks would have become productive major leaguers capable of replacing the caliber of players we may lose this offseason. That's really what we are talking about. Nick Delmonico is not a replacement for Chris Davis. Gabriel Lino is not a replacement for Matt Wieters. We did lose two pitching prospects of value, only one of whom is likely to help a major league team in 2016. As to the picks, it's impossible to know if they would have been ready to contribute.

I don't think I commented about the ability of our farm to replace our potential 2015 losses so I'm not sure the issue here.

I simply posted that I disagreed with sentiment questioning the organization's ability to develop players considering we traded away prospects most likely to reach the majors and traded/forfeited the top draft picks that are most likely to result in placing players in the organization most capable of reaching the majors.

Though I did not clarify, I think the organization has done a fine job of developing Gausman, Bundy, Schoop, Wright, Yaz, Harvey, Sisco and others so far - plus EdRod and Hader.

[Frobby]

I think Hader has been considered a huge loss by many here. And the loss of three or four very high picks is always relevant to the health of a farm system.

I think the current topic is more specific than the health of the farm system. It has to do with the capacity to provide talent to replace the players we may lose after 2015. Certainly no system could replace 11 guys at once.

[weams]

I think the current topic is more specific than the health of the farm system. It has to do with the capacity to provide talent to replace the players we may lose after 2015. Certainly no system could replace 11 guys at once.

The best ones can replace two or maybe three at a time.

[Frobby]

I don't think I commented about the ability of our farm to replace our potential 2015 losses so I'm not sure the issue here.

I simply posted that I disagreed with sentiment questioning the organization's ability to develop players considering we traded away prospects most likely to reach the majors and traded/forfeited the top draft picks that are most likely to result in placing players in the organization most capable of reaching the majors.

Though I did not clarify, I think the organization has done a fine job of developing Gausman, Bundy, Schoop, Wright, Yaz, Harvey, Sisco and others so far - plus EdRod and Hader.

Thanks for clarifying. I think player development of talent in the system has improved a lot since Duquette's arrival, as our poster SoxHotCorner predicted it would. It would be nice to have a few more Sisco's floating around the system.