The Duquette Conundrum

[Stotle]

Well, maybe, but how many people in a baseball organization (excluding the players, manager and GM) make as much money as a lawyer at a well regarded law firm? Does a scouting director make that much?

To be clear, I was just kidding. But, yeah, it's about assistant scouting director to scouting director moola.

[McLovin]

He took a team that was a series away from the WS - and made it worse. You would think that it would be time to build on. But instead he made a big splash with the Rule V and MiLB FA's. I am more than fine if he takes that act to Toronto.

Buck is the straw that stirs the drink.

[McLovin]

OK, that is a very even handed view. I wonder who got the team to the play-offs before he screwed it up?

I agree that Buck is more important in the overall scheme of things. I disagree that it is a binary situation. They have both down good things and are important to the team's success.

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So would you agree that taking a team that is 'not good enough' - and making them worse - is a good idea?

It's OK to feel different about completely different offseasons I think...

[theobird]

I said it 3 years ago, I said it 2 years ago and I said it this past offseason. You can view a GM's work about 3 years down the road. AM did a fabulous job of building this team back, and DD has burned it down. This is not sour grapes. I said this past winter that if the Orioles did well this year and going forward, DD would deserve the credit. We could have brought back Syd Thrift after Andy left and we would have won. This team was set up for success. Right now I would offer Philadelphia DD and a nice package of prospects for Andy MacPhail.

[Can_of_corn]

I said it 3 years ago, I said it 2 years ago and I said it this past offseason. You can view a GM's work about 3 years down the road. AM did a fabulous job of building this team back, and DD has burned it down. This is not sour grapes. I said this past winter that if the Orioles did well this year and going forward, DD would deserve the credit. We could have brought back Syd Thrift after Andy left and we would have won. This team was set up for success. Right now I would offer Philadelphia DD and a nice package of prospects for Andy MacPhail.

Burned it down? The team is around .500, the run differential is still very good and they have exactly one long term commitment on the books.

This isn't the Phillies.

[DrungoHazewood]

Dan Duquette is in a no-win situation with certain fans, some of whom post here.

For every pending free agent he trades now, no matter what the return, some will say, "He didn't get much, MacPhail would have gotten more."

For every pending free agent he retains in order to give him a QO and gain a comp pick, some will say, "He should have traded him and gotten more than a comp pick."

For every arb-eligible player not named Machado to whom he tenders a contract, some will say, "Should have let him go. Guys like that are a dime a dozen."

And for every guy he non-tenders, some will say, "Should have held on to him. He's a Buck kind of guy."

So, I think the best thing that Duquette can do is just not worry about what any of us think. He was probably ahead of me on that, but now he knows I agree.

I've gone to my happy place. The knee-jerk reactionary negativists are on ignore now. Duquette will do what he does, hopefully it works out and the Orioles finish the season with their dignity intact, maybe even make things interesting for a while, and are set up to be competitive in 2016.

[DrungoHazewood]

Burned it down? The team is around .500, the run differential is still very good and they have exactly one long term commitment on the books.

This isn't the Phillies.

When you demand a World Championship every year all the non-Championship teams look the same: Some stage of rebuilding. As SportsGuy would put it, one game out of the playoffs is the same thing as 57 wins.

No, I don't believe any of that.

[DrungoHazewood]

There will always be critics and supporters and comparisons to prior GMs and other GMs.

I don't call it a no-win situation.

IMO, a good GM makes the best moves for the short and long term of the franchise taking into account the competitiveness of the major league team. I think DD make some excellent moves in 2012 to get us to the playoffs, but overall I am not a fan of the focus on near term winning at the expense of substantial future wins and a weak farm system.

Not a fan of 2014, huh?

[Can_of_corn]

When you demand a World Championship every year all the non-Championship teams look the same: Some stage of rebuilding. As SportsGuy would put it, one game out of the playoffs is the same thing as 57 wins.

No, I don't believe any of that.

Of course not, you get much better draft position with 57 wins.

[Crazysilver03]

I said it 3 years ago, I said it 2 years ago and I said it this past offseason. You can view a GM's work about 3 years down the road. AM did a fabulous job of building this team back, and DD has burned it down. This is not sour grapes. I said this past winter that if the Orioles did well this year and going forward, DD would deserve the credit. We could have brought back Syd Thrift after Andy left and we would have won. This team was set up for success. Right now I would offer Philadelphia DD and a nice package of prospects for Andy MacPhail.

Sure. Without DD it is unlikely they go to the playoffs.

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[Can_of_corn]

Sure. Without DD it is unlikely they go to the playoffs.

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I don't think AM would have been a buyer in 2012.

[TonySoprano]

I said it 3 years ago, I said it 2 years ago and I said it this past offseason. You can view a GM's work about 3 years down the road. AM did a fabulous job of building this team back, and DD has burned it down. This is not sour grapes. I said this past winter that if the Orioles did well this year and going forward, DD would deserve the credit. We could have brought back Syd Thrift after Andy left and we would have won. This team was set up for success. Right now I would offer Philadelphia DD and a nice package of prospects for Andy MacPhail.

Remind us how well we looked in Andy's 3rd or 4th year. Here's a hint, before 2011, Andy had been on the job for over 3 1/2 years.

[Singleton]

Dan Duquette is in a no-win situation with certain fans, some of whom post here.

For every pending free agent he trades now, no matter what the return, some will say, "He didn't get much, MacPhail would have gotten more."

For every pending free agent he retains in order to give him a QO and gain a comp pick, some will say, "He should have traded him and gotten more than a comp pick."

For every arb-eligible player not named Machado to whom he tenders a contract, some will say, "Should have let him go. Guys like that are a dime a dozen."

And for every guy he non-tenders, some will say, "Should have held on to him. He's a Buck kind of guy."

So, I think the best thing that Duquette can do is just not worry about what any of us think. He was probably ahead of me on that, but now he knows I agree.

I don't find it to be any sort of conundrum. It's really quite simple. Like every sports message board in every city on the planet, when the home team is playing poorly, the posts are going to trend negative and players and management will be criticized. That's the way it goes and always will go. When the team plays well -- they get plenty of love.

I feel certain that if DD does read the board, he would understand that.

He's not in a no win situation at all. Individual decisions on free agents etc don't matter. It's all wins and losses baby.

For the past 3 years, he's been literally referred to as a God ("In DD we trust"). I'm sure it was fun. I'm also sure he's not freaking out or guided by a few posts that criticize him on a message board. And if he is worried about it, we are in deep, deep trouble for reasons that have nothing to do with what did or did not happen in the offseason.

I've generally been critical of DD. I'm not going to get into it in this thread but I (like the majority of others) have never questioned his intelligence or his motives. I just haven't loved the strategy. And part of the fun of message boards is to come and discuss. So, lets not get too defensive in our positions in either direction and appreciate the conversation that should add to our enjoyment of following our team.

[Moondoggie]

Fans are a fickle lot. For years I heard *****ing and moaning about Andy "MacFail." A year ago Duquette was a genius. Now Duquette is a bum and MacPhail was a genius. In truth, they're a pair of good baseball men who made some great moves and some mistakes.

There's one thing for which I'll always be thankful to Dan Duquette. He took the job when it seemed that none of the Orioles' other top targets wanted anywhere near it. And regardless of who you think deserves the credit in retrospect, the team started winning under his leadership. By the same token, I think the Orioles should have let him go to Toronto and not been so unreasonable in their demands last winter. It would have been far less of a distraction and there would have been no cloud hanging over this thing in the minds of some fans. And because the Orioles started winning during Duquette's tenure, there are a lot of great candidates out there who would have been lining up to replace him. GMs come and go.

[mdbdotcom]

I said it 3 years ago, I said it 2 years ago and I said it this past offseason. You can view a GM's work about 3 years down the road. AM did a fabulous job of building this team back, and DD has burned it down. This is not sour grapes. I said this past winter that if the Orioles did well this year and going forward, DD would deserve the credit. We could have brought back Syd Thrift after Andy left and we would have won. This team was set up for success. Right now I would offer Philadelphia DD and a nice package of prospects for Andy MacPhail.

I think this is the funniest thing I've ever read here.