The Implosion of 2015

[mcgraw238]

Right, yet he just needed a change of scenery. His time in Baltimore was up.

I think its been proven that he did need a change of scenery. There should be huge focus on what about the scenery caused a talented arm to struggle so badly. I don't find comfort in lines like "he was given plenty of chances here." I recall cringing when I read a few years back that we were tinkering with Bundy's delivery to quicken his TTP...Not that you can't make adjustments to your prospects, but I remember taking note when I read that. Matusz at one point a few years back seemed to be putting it all together and then a little TTP later he's nothing more than a LOOGY. The recent ESPN article mentioning Rick Peterson was the first time I had read his name associated with the O's in quite some time...In fact, I few weeks earlier I had visited the O's website to see if he was still listed with the organization. We know Buck got pretty steamed when Peterson's name was mentioned by the press a few years back. Maybe our development process (the scenery) is top notch, but it doesn't appear that way to me.

[hoosiers]

He pitched 51 innings for the Cubs in 2013 and went 9-9 and was only a .7 WAR pitcher.

It wasn't until 2014 that he became what he is now.

So how is that very clear?

Well, no it's not so clear because we both have messed up the facts.

In 2013, Jake did not go 9-9. He went 5-4 over the season and 4-2 with the Cubs.

Jake did pitch to a .7 WAR in 9 starts with the Cubs to end the season. That is a 2.5 WAR pace over a full season and would have been the second best WAR on the Os had Jake pitched that way all season and for the Os. Jake has been over a 10 WAR pitcher in the two seasons since.

I think it is fair game to question the front office and talent assessors when it came to dealing Jake. And the same issue occurred a year later when dealing EdRod in both instances giving up far better players than it appears our front office thought it would. Also, our front office has had a "damn the torpedoes" everything is to improve the 25 man roster attitude for several seasons and that has led directly to the current state of the franchise - which isn't very pretty IMO.

[Il BuonO]

I think its been proven that he did need a change of scenery. There should be huge focus on what about the scenery caused a talented arm to struggle so badly. I don't find comfort in lines like "he was given plenty of chances here."

That's a lot different than the people here who seem to think he couldn't have succeeded with the proper coaching or development. Jake has the talent, it wasn't tapped in Baltimore. That's an organizational failing.

[Orange]

We got Chris Davis in much the same way that the Cubs got Arrieta. A losing team can spend a roster spot on a AAAA type of guy with tons of talent who might have the lights turn on. A winning club needs Koji for the playoff run. Or Feldman. Winning clubs deal AAAA players for a helpful asset while they still can and losing teams have the luxury of finding out if regular playing time will turn that guy into a bona fide major leaguer. Maybe a 5 WAR pitcher. Maybe the league leader in dingers. YMMV

[weams]

The first post quoted here and the statement I highlighted was that with which I first responded. It refers to posters here at the OH, not the media.

And I can remain objective and a fan of the team while sometimes being critical. Some people won't do that and resort to calling anyone who does disloyal.

I think it is reasonable to look at things in that perspective.

[weams]

We got Chris Davis in much the same way that the Cubs got Arrieta. A losing team can spend a roster spot on a AAAA type of guy with tons of talent who might have the lights turn on. A winning club needs Koji for the playoff run. Or Feldman. Winning clubs deal AAAA players for a helpful asset while they still can and losing teams have the luxury of finding out if regular playing time will turn that guy into a bona fide major leaguer. Maybe a 5 WAR pitcher. Maybe the league leader in dingers. YMMV

This is quite accurate as well.

[weams]

There were 29 teams that would not give Nelson Cruz a one year make good before 2014 also.

[Can_of_corn]

There were 29 teams that would not give Nelson Cruz a one year make good before 2014 also.

I'm pretty sure Seattle would have given him a one year deal. They had offered him a multi-year deal.

[MrOrange82]

That's a lot different than the people here who seem to think he couldn't have succeeded with the proper coaching or development. Jake has the talent, it wasn't tapped in Baltimore. That's an organizational failing.

Well, sure. Which is why he needed a change of scenery. Which is why it was an organizational failure. Which is why he needed a change of scenery. And so on. Arrieta was done in Baltimore because Baltimore had lousy people telling him what to do and not do. Given that the Baltimore people weren't going to change much (and it doesn't seem like they've changed much in the interim), Arrieta need out of here.

[tntoriole]

There were many times that I would have preferred Daniel Cabrera, Radhames Liz, or Brian Matusz starting than have Jake out there.

This year is probably not one of those times...lol.

[weams]

This year is probably not one of those times...lol.

Not at all. But when we had him, he was my least favorite Orioles pitcher to watch.

[tntoriole]

GM performance, fair or unfair, is based on how things turn out (not whether they were a good idea at the time that most people agreed with, even perhaps including your boss). I had no problems at the time and still don't with the Arrieta deal- the truth is we could not fix him or he could not fix himself, whatever, and he was going to be DFAd as the next step and we would have received nothing. I had no problems either, really, with the Miller/Eduardo trade...again, it was something that reasonably stood a chance to get us into the World Series. But I had significant disagreement with continuing to deal pitching prospects when we had drained that well beyond dry and, particularly, with Bundy and Harvey in the unknown category, that we had no business dealing pitching prospects last winter for a dud like Snider or this year for a rental of Parra. DD can be held much more accountable for those decisions, imho. If Bundy, Harvey turn around or other pitching/draft prospects or signings step up, then this will all be fine, of course. But if Davies, Tarpley, Brault turn out to be good major league pitchers, then that is clearly on DD as an unnecessary negative call on his part.

[tntoriole]

Not at all. But when we had him, he was my least favorite Orioles pitcher to watch.

Jake drove me crazy too.

[Frobby]

I'm just curious. Do you really think his breaking pitch is still poor? He throws it very rarely but it has looked consistently good to me in his recent starts.

The announcers thought he threw it well in his last start. But he's only throwing a breaking pitch 10% of the time, which is very low. Now, part of that is because he has a 97 mph fastball and two forms of change-up, but I think if he had a better feel for the breaking ball we'd see it much more often, especially in 2-strike counts.

[Can_of_corn]

10-4 over last 14.