Buck's statement on Kim and tonight's game

[Barnfather]

Sorry if already mentioned, as only skimming the forum at mo (at work!)

But I didn't interpret Bucks comments to be anti-Kim. It seemed he was more extolling the virtues of Rickard and wanting to keep his momentum in the line-up. As for Kim, he even said he didn't like the idea of him sitting around and not getting games, but he has to think about the big picture as well.

I didn't take from it that he was saying Kim was poor (he hasn't been), but rather he was wanting to keep certain people in the line up for this particular game. Keeping consistency at the top of the line-up may be more important to the O's at the moment than anything else.

Funny how different people read the same thing in different ways

I still think Kim will end up being an important player for us

[NashLumber]

Brady had glowing things to say about him, DD had glowing things to say about him, Daniel Kim had glowing things to say about him, his videos from Korea were pretty impressive to watch even though he wasn't playing

at that level during spring training :snipped the rest:

I was encouraged by that as well, but now I realize Brady was talking about "line drive after line" drive when it was batting practice pitching he was seeing. And Daniel Kim's comments were about his Korean Baseball at bats. Based on all we've been able to glean from the calibre of ball there from those who've seen more of that league than us, it was roughly AA level competition.

I want Kim to succeed, I pull for him in every at bat, with hopes it helps the O's win a game. But it seems you've been pushing Kim for a bigger role almost in a PR fashion ("laser beam", "rocket" hits) for awhile now without regard to the big picture of the team's situation. For whatever reason (likely his and his coaches considering his SP at bats, back field work, things we don't see), Buck felt he'd seen enough and he's taking up a spot on the team and it limits the team's flexibility due to Bundy / Rickard situation. Rickard earned his role on the team in SP and Buck and Dan surely agreed they needed to run with it. Time will tell if Rickard will stick, but he does bring us things Kim doesn't like speed, range and flexibility in OF positions, especially with a possible Jones DL coming. Buck surely has to think ahead to this kind of stuff. This whole scenario is not an ideal situation, but I think Buck is managing the best he can with a limited deck of cards. And as I mentioned a number of times, I think Kim is essentially filling the Delmon part time DH / PH role from '14. He's gotten on base and has been reliable without being an everyday player. I think in that regard, he adds value to the team. I never felt a need to lobby for more Delmon time as it seemed clear, he had a job, accepted it and did it well. If Kim hits a bases loaded double as a starter or PH anytime soon, I'll be as ecstatic as I was when Delmon did it.

[Sessh]

Well, I don't think it is exaggerating to say he has hit some "laser beams" and "rockets". DD had been giving Kim the benefit of the doubt insisting he needed time and at bats even while Buck was doing something entirely

contrary. It just seemed to me that Buck was kind of alone in his opinions about Kim, but what Buck says goes and so it doesn't really matter. As for a bigger role, I'm talking about one game here. Rickard is slumping and

we had been having trouble scoring runs, so again, what's the harm in one game? Delmon Young played his way into the role he was in nor was there ever any time where anyone felt Young was mistreated by the

organization or that he was being given a raw deal. There are many other factors involved with Kim than there was for Young. I have trouble seeing valid comparisons with the two, but that's just me. It's not like I'm

pressing for Kim to be a starter, but unlike Delmon Young, Kim is an unknown and a potentially much more valuable piece to this team than he is being given the chance to show. It's the part about being content with

just keeping him in the shadows as an unknown. We knew what Delmon Young was before he got here. Kim, we don't know yet.

[GoldGlove21]

Buck is not coming off like much of a leader when he says things like this.

They are unnecessary and frankly, pretty unprofessional.

Kim's arm is weak and he can't hit a fastball above 93 mph. He is slow on 88 mph. I like the way he works the count, but he just isn't a very good baseball player. We can't get rid of him (that is our fault) and we can't send him down to get regular at bats (that is his fault). Just take the demotion, get your money and then kill AAA pitching until the Orioles have to promote you. What Kim is doing is kind of garbage.

[NashLumber]

Well, I don't think it is exaggerating to say he has hit some "laser beams" and "rockets". DD had been giving Kim the benefit of the doubt insisting he needed time and at bats even while Buck was doing something entirely

contrary. It just seemed to me that Buck was kind of alone in his opinions about Kim, but what Buck says goes and so it doesn't really matter. As for a bigger role, I'm talking about one game here. Rickard is slumping and

we had been having trouble scoring runs, so again, what's the harm in one game? Delmon Young played his way into the role he was in nor was there ever any time where anyone felt Young was mistreated by the

organization or that he was being given a raw deal. There are many other factors involved with Kim than there was for Young. I have trouble seeing valid comparisons with the two, but that's just me. It's not like I'm

pressing for Kim to be a starter, but unlike Delmon Young, Kim is an unknown and a potentially much more valuable piece to this team than he is being given the chance to show. It's the part about being content with

just keeping him in the shadows as an unknown. We knew what Delmon Young was before he got here. Kim, we don't know yet.

Fair enough. I do think he's started two games so far, right? I'm getting ready to leave the house for a bit and don't have time to research how many starts Delmon got at this same stage 20 games into '14 (2015 is another matter, different role for him) maybe it's comparable, maybe it's not. And I'm not against a Kim start against a favorable pitching match-up for him. At this very point in time, Alvarez is getting hot, so that's going to limit Kim starting as a DH. But I do know defense factors into the equation for Buck as well and making out the lineups is his job. Whether or not the small sample size defensive stats for Kim, Rickard or Trumbo are factored in by Buck, I do feel as if he's an eye test kind of guy when it comes to such a thing. And it seems he doesn't trust Kim's defense enough right now to risk him starting just on defense alone.

I still have trouble labeling his hits rockets and lasers. I did a search for him batting and those 5 hits and in the even the labels on mlb.com call the two I've been able to see as "soft chopper", Thorne calls one (rightly) a "loop to left field". Even the two hit game in Sarasota, one was a lazy bloop out of the reach of the SS and the other was an infield hit (not grabbed cleanly by the 3B in a dive). A SP sac fly sent the Twins CF back about 5 steps, but it was a routine fly. I do remember a regular season hit to right that was a short line drive, but I would not by any means label it a rocket or laser. Please, no need to spin these things.

[GoldGlove21]

I kind of hope Kim and Joey form a fairly decent and productive platoon by the time mid season rolls around. I think they both have attributes that can help the 2016 O's win.

Just curious... what attributes do you see each player as having?

[Sessh]

Fair enough. I do think he's started two games so far, right? I'm getting ready to leave the house for a bit and don't have time to research how many starts Delmon got at this same stage 20 games into '14 (2015 is another matter, different role for him) maybe it's comparable, maybe it's not. And I'm not against a Kim start against a favorable pitching match-up for him. At this very point in time, Alvarez is getting hot, so that's going to limit Kim starting as a DH. But I do know defense factors into the equation for Buck as well and making out the lineups is his job. Whether or not the small sample size defensive stats for Kim, Rickard or Trumbo are factored in by Buck, I do feel as if he's an eye test kind of guy when it comes to such a thing. And it seems he doesn't trust Kim's defense enough right now to risk him starting just on defense alone.

I don't have the time to look into Young AB's right now either as I'm multitasking a bit, but it might be interesting to see. I wouldn't start Kim based on defense alone, but for all we know, Kim's bat would make up for any

defensive shortcomings. It's the part about not knowing and not being all that interested in finding out that bugs me. I hope Kim does eventually get more at bats as the season wears on. At least if we had more to go on,

we'd be closer to knowing what Kim could be capable of in the major leagues. I'd rather know one way or the other than make assumptions that he can't play after only a trivial amount of time in the majors.

[Sessh]

Fair enough. I do think he's started two games so far, right?

Oh, and he has started three games and pinch hit once.

[NashLumber]

Oh, and he has started three games and pinch hit once.

Sure. Just going by memory. Do see my edit above about the spin, though. It's really not necessary and kind of taints some of your point with PR-speak. I am about halfway where you are but without the burning desire to see what he can do right now. I think he should accept his role now. Beggars can't be choosers. His contract may guarantee a spot on the team - a win for Kim - but not how he's used. He does have a boss and it is a *team* after all.

[DrungoHazewood]

Kim's arm is weak and he can't hit a fastball above 93 mph. He is slow on 88 mph. I like the way he works the count, but he just isn't a very good baseball player. We can't get rid of him (that is our fault) and we can't send him down to get regular at bats (that is his fault). Just take the demotion, get your money and then kill AAA pitching until the Orioles have to promote you. What Kim is doing is kind of garbage.

I'm wondering how you can be that definitive on Kim's performance. You couldn't have seen more than a handful spring at bats and his 12 MLB PAs. According to Pitch F/x data he's seen 25 four-seamers and 6 sinkers, and the average fastball velocity looks to be in the low 90s, around 92. Out of that he's reached base seven times, including all five of his hits coming on fastballs.

[Can_of_corn]

Kim's arm is weak and he can't hit a fastball above 93 mph. He is slow on 88 mph. I like the way he works the count, but he just isn't a very good baseball player. We can't get rid of him (that is our fault) and we can't send him down to get regular at bats (that is his fault). Just take the demotion, get your money and then kill AAA pitching until the Orioles have to promote you. What Kim is doing is kind of garbage.

I think what the O's have been trying to do is kinda garbage.

Kim is just exercising his negotiated rights.

Let me ask you what I asked someone else.

You get hired to work in a big town on an important project. Once you get there they decide your skills are not up to snuff and they want to ship you off to a Podunk town you never heard of to work on a less important project while you refine your skills. The pay is the same but the perks are no where near as nice. You have no idea when, or if, you will be able to do the job you actually signed on to do.

Would you agree to leave or would you expect them to honor the contract they signed?

[Sessh]

Sure. Just going by memory. Do see my edit above about the spin, though. It's really not necessary and kind of taints some of your point with PR-speak. I am about halfway where you are but without the burning desire to see what he can do right now. I think he should accept his role now. Beggars can't be choosers. His contract may guarantee a spot on the team - a win for Kim - but not how he's used. He does have a boss and it is a *team* after all.

In his start against Boston, he hit a ball 400+ feet to center field that was caught and would have been a home run in most other parks. In his pinch hit at Texas, he hit a rocket into right field. He turned on a 93MPH

fastball on the inside part of the plate and crushed it into right field. If he pulled it a bit more, it would have been in the corner. It was not softly hit by any stretch. He hit a liner off a defender's glove in KC for his second

hit of that game. So, no I am not exaggerating nor is there any need to do so.

[NashLumber]

In his start against Boston, he hit a ball 400+ feet to center field that was caught and would have been a home run in most other parks. In his pinch hit at Texas, he hit a rocket into right field. He turned on a 93MPH

fastball on the inside part of the plate and crushed it into right field. If he pulled it a bit more, it would have been in the corner. It was not softly hit by any stretch. He hit a liner off a defender's glove in KC for his second

hit of that game. So, no I am not exaggerating nor is there any need to do so.

"Crush" and "rocket"? You're doing it again. I'll change my opinion if you can back this up with video. And I will apologize for doubting you. I just feel as if you're on some kind of mission. And I honestly thought you joined the board in March with that purpose, to pump Kim. When you put the extra work into starting the game threads, I backed off of that opinion. But "crush"? I'd love to see those. And I am honest about apologizing if this the video proves me wrong. Again, I'd like to see him get a few more starts than we've seen, but the hyperbole in making your point just makes me want to mistrust your memory. And I saw the games, but those are not my recollections. I could be wrong. And will admit it.

[Can_of_corn]

"Crush" and "rocket"? You're doing it again. I'll change my opinion if you can back this up with video. And I will apologize for doubting you. I just feel as if you're on some kind of mission. And I honestly thought you joined the board in March with that purpose, to pump Kim. When you put the extra work into starting the game threads, I backed off of that opinion. But "crush"? I'd love to see those. And I am honest about apologizing if this the video proves me wrong. Again, I'd like to see him get a few more starts than we've seen, but the hyperbole in making your point just makes me want to mistrust your memory. And I saw the games, but those are not my recollections. I could be wrong. And will admit it.

What if I told you Kim hits the ball harder than the MLB average?

[Sessh]

"Crush" and "rocket"? You're doing it again. I'll change my opinion if you can back this up with video. And I will apologize for doubting you. I just feel as if you're on some kind of mission. And I honestly thought you joined the board in March with that purpose, to pump Kim. When you put the extra work into starting the game threads, I backed off of that opinion. But "crush"? I'd love to see those. And I am honest about apologizing if this the video proves me wrong. Again, I'd like to see him get a few more starts than we've seen, but the hyperbole in making your point just makes me want to mistrust your memory. And I saw the games, but those are not my recollections. I could be wrong. And will admit it.

I did try to look for video before, but why would there be video of a fly out and two singles? Look, if Kim was hitting dribblers all over the place still, I would not come on here and say he was hitting lasers and crushing

the ball. That is ridiculous and I would kick my own ass for doing that. Whether or not you believe me, that's what happened. I am sure that if I was so full of it, this entire forum would come down on me and rightfully so.

So, believe what you want to, but I will continue to call hard hit balls "lasers" and I will continue to say a batter "crushed" a hard hit ball when applicable. I find it hard to believe you saw those AB's.