Failure to Develop or Sign OBP

[Ohfan67]

And don't forget, the other teams have had the advantage of facing the Orioles' starting pitching staff. ba-da-bing!

[Aristotelian]

Haha...I just started a thread the other day on how the Orioles have improved in OBP. O's have improved since I started the thread, despite being mostly shut down last night. By the way, the O's developed Manny and he is #1 in MLB. #1. Davis and Alvarez, despite obvious weaknesses, will take walks. Rickard and Joseph are patient, but pitchers just aren't afraid to challenge them.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/153020-OBP-Tracker

I do agree that DD's acquisitions did not appear to target OBP. I am curious a) if this is just a good month and/or b) if anyone has an explanation for what we are seeing.

[SouthernBird]

Wright somehow reminds me of Kenny Powers...something about his look.

[waroriole]

He has great stuff. Tony thinks he is a bullpen arm. I am hoping he adds a wrinkle and figures out starting. A good umpire today would be a help.

His FB is good enough to be a back end SP. If he can just maintain composure and improve secondaries, he's a SP.

[Filmstudy]

I'm talking about a 16-year trend and the response is that "the last 34 games have been fine". The truth is that it's not actually fine to be 8th in the league in walks with a powerful lineup like the O's have and it does not project for continued success.

But more importantly, the focus on power is ill advised, because OBP is worth more than SLG and my contention is the O's have completely lost focus on it by undervaluing walks.

The last question in my post is the significant one. How did the Orioles lose their way in terms valuing BB when they were so focused on it during the Weaver era?

[BohKnowsBmore]

I'm talking about a 16-year trend and the response is that "the last 34 games have been fine". The truth is that it's not actually fine to be 8th in the league in walks with a powerful lineup like the O's have and it does not project for continued success.

But more importantly, the focus on power is ill advised, because OBP is worth more than SLG and my contention is the O's have completely lost focus on it by undervaluing walks.

The last question in my post is the significant one. How did the Orioles lose their way in terms valuing BB when they were so focused on it during the Weaver era?

To the bolded, you didn't really make that clear, so you're timing seemed very odd. It would be akin to me starting a thread that asserted "Chris Tillman is not a good pitcher" immediately after last night's game, then telling everyone they were wrong to focus on his most recent start because I was talking about what I saw him do in 2015. Further, why is being 8th in walks not okay? OBP is the combination of batting average and walks. In composite they are getting on base at a very good clip. Why is that not acceptable?

To the italicized, citation?

[Filmstudy]

To the bolded, you didn't really make that clear, so you're timing seemed very odd. It would be akin to me starting a thread that asserted "Chris Tillman is not a good pitcher" immediately after last night's game, then telling everyone they were wrong to focus on his most recent start because I was talking about what I saw him do in 2015. Further, why is being 8th in walks not okay? OBP is the combination of batting average and walks. In composite they are getting on base at a very good clip. Why is that not acceptable?

To the italicized, citation?

I understand your comment and I'm sorry about the lack of clarity, but I was trying to write something thoughtful about how the move from OBP and SLG to a combined number may have clouded organizational judgment to the point where the team has systematically undervalued walks in talent evaluation.

If the Orioles can sustain this level of offense (.272 and 1.5 HR/G being the key metrics), they'll be fine, score close to 750 runs and probably get one of the Wild Cards. However, I don't believe those figures are sustainable and I think they are far less likely to be sustained with mediocre walk totals.

[weams]

I understand your comment and I'm sorry about the lack of clarity, but I was trying to write something thoughtful about how the move from OBP and SLG to a combined number may have clouded organizational judgment to the point where the team has systematically undervalued walks in talent evaluation.

If the Orioles can sustain this level of offense (.272 and 1.5 HR/G being the key metrics), they'll be fine, score close to 750 runs and probably get one of the Wild Cards. However, I don't believe those figures are sustainable and I think they are far less likely to be sustained with mediocre walk totals.

The Orioles Specifically targeted OBP last draft. Not necessarily well.

[waroriole]

I understand your comment and I'm sorry about the lack of clarity, but I was trying to write something thoughtful about how the move from OBP and SLG to a combined number may have clouded organizational judgment to the point where the team has systematically undervalued walks in talent evaluation.

If the Orioles can sustain this level of offense (.272 and 1.5 HR/G being the key metrics), they'll be fine, score close to 750 runs and probably get one of the Wild Cards. However, I don't believe those figures are sustainable and I think they are far less likely to be sustained with mediocre walk totals.

I think everyone in the organization is well aware, as are most people here, that OBP is the more important aspect of OPS. This seemed to be the crux of your post.

While OBP may be valuable, you have to work with what you have. Power, defense, bullpen. It doesn't mean they've completely ignored OBP. Alvarez and Rickard come with a history of a selective batting eye. Kim and Reimold have a similar reputation. They resigned Davis, who has become a great hitter due to his improved selectivity. However, some guys (Jones, Hardy) are just not that type of hitter. The easy argument is to bash the for not walking more, but it's just not part of their game. You start demanding more patience at the plate, and what are the unintended consequences of that? First, and most obvious, is diminished power.

So, considering the offseason moves, and the great start, the timing of your post is very confusing. Especially, because you ignore OBP in favor of total walks.

[weams]

Wright somehow reminds me of Kenny Powers...something about his look.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kenny Powers? Mike Wright? <a href="https://t.co/zwmA5OzNxF">pic.twitter.com/zwmA5OzNxF</a></p>— Orioles Hangout (@OriolesHangout) <a href="

">May 14, 2016</a></blockquote>

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[weams]

I understand your comment and I'm sorry about the lack of clarity, but I was trying to write something thoughtful about how the move from OBP and SLG to a combined number may have clouded organizational judgment to the point where the team has systematically undervalued walks in talent evaluation.

If the Orioles can sustain this level of offense (.272 and 1.5 HR/G being the key metrics), they'll be fine, score close to 750 runs and probably get one of the Wild Cards. However, I don't believe those figures are sustainable and I think they are far less likely to be sustained with mediocre walk totals.

I do understand the math, but base on our players and our stadium the slugging part plays up.

[Aristotelian]

I'm talking about a 16-year trend and the response is that "the last 34 games have been fine". The truth is that it's not actually fine to be 8th in the league in walks with a powerful lineup like the O's have and it does not project for continued success.

Well, you have to at least acknowledge that this year the O's are doing pretty good. If you don't believe that the trend will be sustained, then make your case.

I am optimistic that Manny's improvement will be sustained. He has improved incrementally every year in his career. This looks like a real evolution in his approach.

Alvarez is a new acquisition and despite low BA he appears to have a very patient approach and high walk rate, similar to Davis. Rickard too has a track record of a high OBP approach in the minors. Wieters is about average.

Reimold and Kim are both high OBP guys and have hit well in their opportunities.

Trumbo is a hacker but so far has made up for it by hitting for a high AVG. I would expect some regression there. Schoop, JJ, and Jones are known hackers and doing what we would expect.

In short, we have two or three guys who can be above average OBP, two or three in the middle, and two or three hackers. I can see this team sustaining at least league average OBP, perhaps a little better. What is your argument for why we won't, other than that this has been a problem in the past?

[weams]

So, considering the offseason moves, and the great start, the timing of your post is very confusing. Especially, because you ignore OBP in favor of total walks.

I agree entirely here.

[Filmstudy]

I think everyone in the organization is well aware, as are most people here, that OBP is the more important aspect of OPS. This seemed to be the crux of your post.

While OBP may be valuable, you have to work with what you have. Power, defense, bullpen. It doesn't mean they've completely ignored OBP. Alvarez and Rickard come with a history of a selective batting eye. Kim and Reimold have a similar reputation. They resigned Davis, who has become a great hitter due to his improved selectivity. However, some guys (Jones, Hardy) are just not that type of hitter. The easy argument is to bash the for not walking more, but it's just not part of their game. You start demanding more patience at the plate, and what are the unintended consequences of that? First, and most obvious, is diminished power.

So, considering the offseason moves, and the great start, the timing of your post is very confusing. Especially, because you ignore OBP in favor of total walks.

I cite the walks specifically, because they are such a significant indicator to future offensive productivity and the best single metric for selectivity at the plate that is broadly available.

I basically agree that you have to mold what you have, but in the same way the Orioles were unable to develop Arietta, I think the organization is culpable for failing to improve plate discipline in their own products (Schoop being the best example now).

[weams]

I cite the walks specifically, because they are such a significant indicator to future offensive productivity and the best single metric for selectivity at the plate that is broadly available.

I basically agree that you have to mold what you have, but in the same way the Orioles were unable to develop Arietta, I think the organization is culpable for failing to improve plate discipline in their own products (Schoop being the best example now).

Yeah. Well, I think folks used Arrieta unfairly, and I would hate to move this sharp thread to the Arrieta Posts in the MLB forum. So no Jake talk.