Duquette Run Is Over

[weams]

Jake went from being a fastball first guy with the O's, to a cutter/slider first guy w/ the Cubs. He stopped worrying about TTP. He was completely revamped in short order. Essentially he was given back one of his better pitches. A pitch that the organization despises when it comes to young pitchers (the cutter). The O's are well on their way to ruining Bundy due to the same BS.

Or he got his head straight somehow. Maybe, just by being out of Baltimore? OR by being given up on and then sent to the minors once again? Or he was far enough removed from the bone spur surgery that he refused to have for a long time because he thought it would lead to Tommy John? None of us know and we aren't going to know because of some revisionist articles. Heck, Jake may not know. But I doubt that. And If he does, I doubt he will tell you about it.

[Tx Oriole]

At some point people need to stop giving Duquette a free pass.

He was essentially resurrected out of the hell that is baseball's blacklist by the Orioles. And then the 2014 offseason he pulls that BS w/ the Blue Jays all the while completely tanking the offseason...with the prize pick being Travis f'ing Snider? Coming off an AL East division crown?

THEN he finally gets off the Blue Jays snide and at the start of the 2016 season, the O's have a payroll approaching $140m-$150m. This isn't chump change. This isn't Angelos not investing. Angelos didn't tell Duquette to give away 1st rounders for Ubaldo and Gallardo. Angelos didn't tell Duquette to trade comp picks, Hader for Bud freaking Norris. Angelos didn't tell Duquette to trade Tarpley for Travis Snider. Angelos didn't tell Duquette to sign Pedro Alvarez.

At some point people need to call a spade a spade. Yes, Duquette has had 4 consecutive non losing seasons with the O's. But I think this is more a function of Buck Showalter than Duquette. Duquette inherited quite a talent base due to the farm system build up of MacPhail and the trades made by MacPhail. All Duquette has done well is build up an amazing relief staff and minor league depth. Outside of that? I have to give a lot of credit to Buck.

At some point you have to stop blaming DD for everything. He's made mistakes

for sure. He does work with a limited payroll. Angelos is the main problem. Do you

think Chris is worth 161 million 7 year deal? Just think if thAt money had been

spent on improving the teAm instead of Chris then this team would be a lot better.

IMO

[weams]

Not even that. Why not sign Doug Fister? $7m, no draft pick compensation. Why Gallardo? Why a guy with a bum shoulder and decreased velocity? Why a guy that nixes out 1st round pick? Why wait until last freaking minute every time?

You going to come to Baltimore to pitch on a one year get right?

[Redskins Rick]

We will pay Jiminez 13 million next year and Gallardo 13 million next year. That almost pays for Price. (He gets 30 million next year) Of course Price has a lot more years. Free Agent starters are most likely going to end up giving you a case of regret.

That's comparing apples to oranges.

[Can_of_corn]

You going to come to Baltimore to pitch on a one year get right?

And there is the key point.

You are not going to get pitchers who have better options to come to Baltimore.

Not with the league, not with the division, not with the ballpark and not with the physicals.

All the more reason not to trade your Haders and your draft picks.

[LookitsPuck]

Or he got his head straight somehow. Maybe, just by being out of Baltimore? OR by being given up on and then sent to the minors once again? Or he was far enough removed from the bone spur surgery that he refused to have for a long time because he thought it would lead to Tommy John? None of us know and we aren't going to know because of some revisionist articles. Heck, Jake may not know. But I doubt that. And If he does, I doubt he will tell you about it.

All I know is that the young pitchers hated the pitching coach merry go round. And that Arrieta had trouble with his mechanic when runners were on base (TTP)...and his pitching repertoire was turned upside down due to an O's edict regarding cutters in young pitchers/prospects.

I posted about this before. He's no longer a fastball first guy. He's a sinker, slider/cutter guy. And that's made the world of difference. And not worrying about runners on base all the time.

Arrieta has eluded to it in the past without completely coming out about it. It's clear as day the O's screwed him up.

[atomic]

Nobody wanted him traded for Scott Feldman. Scott Feldman, he who had a career 4.81 ERA prior to the 2013 season. An ERA+ of 94. A 4.56 FIP. A WHIP of over 1.4.

And Arrieta had options. Now, it's clear as day that the Orioles would never get Arrieta right. So the point is moot.

Feldman was a desperation move. The same desperation move of acquiring Parra.

They traded him for Feldman because that is all they could get for him. And you can bad mouth Feldman all you want but he would be our second best starter if he were on the team.

You have been a member since 2006 so bring up the thread where you said trading Arrieta for Feldman was a terrible trade and Arrieta would become a Cy Young award winner one day.

I have heard of crying over spilt milk but this harping on Arrieta trade is ridiculous. Buck wanted him and Strop gone we got what we could for them you move on.

[LookitsPuck]

You going to come to Baltimore to pitch on a one year get right?

I hear this excuse every.single.time about these kinds of signings. Maybe, maybe not. But then you don't sign huge risk guys like Gallardo (arm problems/velocity) and Ubaldo (walllllk nation, mechanics) that have draft pick compensation tied to them. Build up your system.

How much better off would this organization be with the 1st rounders from Ubaldo and Gallardo? With Hader? With ERod?

[Can_of_corn]

They traded him for Feldman because that is all they could get for him. And you can bad mouth Feldman all you want but he would be our second best starter if he were on the team.

You have been a member since 2006 so bring up the thread where you said trading Arrieta for Feldman was a terrible trade and Arrieta would become a Cy Young award winner one day.

I have heard of crying over spilt milk but this harping on Arrieta trade is ridiculous. Buck wanted him and Strop gone we got what we could for them you move on.

I have no lingering issues over the Arrieta trade but if your GM is talking orders from your manager you are going to have a bad time.

[LookitsPuck]

They traded him for Feldman because that is all they could get for him. And you can bad mouth Feldman all you want but he would be our second best starter if he were on the team.

You have been a member since 2006 so bring up the thread where you said trading Arrieta for Feldman was a terrible trade and Arrieta would become a Cy Young award winner one day.

I have heard of crying over spilt milk but this harping on Arrieta trade is ridiculous. Buck wanted him and Strop gone we got what we could for them you move on.

I wrote this article back in 2013. Before he was traded:

http://www.stephenpauladams.com/articles/the-strange-case-of-dr-jakyll-and-mr-wylde/

Now, I had no idea at the time about the Orioles hate affair with the cutters or the TTTP malarkey across our young starters.

That said, I merely hated the trade because Feldman doesn't move the needle. And Arrieta had options. That's it. I had no idea he'd go on to be the best pitcher in baseball that isn't named Clayton Kershaw. I knew he had the stuff. That's about it.

[weams]

I hear this excuse every.single.time about these kinds of signings. Maybe, maybe not. But then you don't sign huge risk guys like Gallardo (arm problems/velocity) and Ubaldo (walllllk nation, mechanics) that have draft pick compensation tied to them. Build up your system.

How much better off would this organization be with the 1st rounders from Ubaldo and Gallardo? With Hader? With ERod?

Just because you and I don't like it doesn't mean it isn't true.

And I desperately wanted ERod to be a god. I went and watched him pitch during his down year with us. He did not look special.

You speak like Edrod or Hader would be here without the wonder of 2014 and Ubaldo and Gallardo.

[weams]

I wrote this article back in 2013. Before he was traded:

http://www.stephenpauladams.com/articles/the-strange-case-of-dr-jakyll-and-mr-wylde/

Now, I had no idea at the time about the Orioles hate affair with the cutters or the TTTP malarkey across our young starters.

That said, I merely hated the trade because Feldman doesn't move the needle. And Arrieta had options. That's it. I had no idea he'd go on to be the best pitcher in baseball that isn't named Clayton Kershaw. I knew he had the stuff. That's about it.

You still dont know about the cutters at the MLB level. Jake was throwing six different pitches during his MLB starts with the Orioles over the last year he was here. You do know about the time to the plate. You do know that Mark Connor quit because he said all our young guys were prima dona headcases. You know Leo Mazzone said so too.

[LookitsPuck]

Just because you and I don't like it doesn't mean it isn't true.

And I desperately wanted ERod to be a god. I went and watched him pitch during his down year with us. He did not look special.

You speak like Edrod or Hader would be here without the wonder of 2014 and Ubaldo and Gallardo.

I was (and still am) extremely high on Hader. Same w/ ERod. He was special to me. Yes, he had knee injuries that year. But he was boy pitching against men. We traded him when he was 21 years old. A lefty with mid 90s stuff with a plus changeup that didn't have control issues? These guys don't grow on trees.

I'm still very high on ERod. My only worry is his knee.

[atomic]

I wrote this article back in 2013. Before he was traded:

http://www.stephenpauladams.com/articles/the-strange-case-of-dr-jakyll-and-mr-wylde/

Now, I had no idea at the time about the Orioles hate affair with the cutters or the TTTP malarkey across our young starters.

That said, I merely hated the trade because Feldman doesn't move the needle. And Arrieta had options. That's it. I had no idea he'd go on to be the best pitcher in baseball that isn't named Clayton Kershaw. I knew he had the stuff. That's about it.

Everyone knew he had good stuff. Everyone wanted him gone. Nothing in your article states he shouldn't be traded for Scott Feldman. Everyone is right 4 years after a trade.

[Orioles0615]

No I wouldn't. OP seems to think that's whats needed.

I think at some point that is or was what needed to be done. I know its mostly on Angelos, but developing an Ace seems like a long shot with the farm system and the only way to restock it would be to rebuild which I don't see them doing. We aren't going to trade for one so how else are we going to do it? Which is why I fear for another 2 years of .500 baseball before 2018 ends and Manny leaves and we end up like the Phillies used to be but without the 2 world series appearances. Again not my predictions but my fear