Will the fans show?

[weams]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-sp-orioles-attendance-decline-20160920-story.html

[CP0861]

I could buy marketing issues for some of the drop if attendance wasn't so low now. It is totally the riots last year and the record setting homicide rate. Ticket prices are insignificant to most people coming to the games. Heck I spend 20k a year on daycare for one kid. Ticket prices are cheap. Compare to any other sport.

Perhaps whomever the new mayor is will do a better job with crime. Playing games in empty stadiums was terrible marketing. Fans getting attacked. People from the suburbs with kids don't want to come down at night.

Personally, I don't think the reason is "totally" anything. It's a combination of everything.

One thing that has caught up to them is how they've relied too much in the past few years on basically bribing people who want playoff tickets into buying season tickets. Everyone wanted playoff tickets in 2014, so the O's dangled the carrot, and sales for 2015 season tickets (as well as expectations) shot through the roof.

I think lots of the Johnny-come-lately bandwagon O's fans (who first started to appear in 2012, went quiet in 2013 and then re-emerged in 2014) peaked with Delmon Young's double. After that, they got swept by KC, missed the playoffs in 2015, and then raised ticket prices. Like another poster mentioned in this thread, I'm sure there's a TON of people who bought 2015 plans who didn't renew in 2016.

"Thanks again for purchasing Orioles season tickets on a whim! Now that we missed the playoffs in your first season, for your 2nd season, here's a 20% price hike! Please renew today!"

Then factor in the riots....

The factor of having 3 MLB teams within 120 miles sharing a small population (under 3M)....fans (albeit easily led fans) were lost to the Phillies during their run and the Nationals since they've come to DC.

The generation that grew up with 14 losing seasons....

The 55" inch HDTV w/surround sound coupled with a leather recliner....

The stale ticket promotions....

The Orioles MUST freshen their product, or they are going to lose die hards like myself. I'll still come to games, but I'll just start buying on stubhub for at/below STH cost.

They had their chance to retain that crowd from 2012-2014 and build their fan base but they didn't do it. They should've been doing backflips to retain those 2015 buyers, instead, they chased them away.

Now.....with attendance sharply trending down, why keep the season tickets? I've been watching stubhub lately, and with lower demand, I can go on stubhub and buy tickets to the same games in my ST plan for LESS than what I paid.

2017 attendance should be interesting if they miss the playoffs this year.

[Going Underground]

Personally, I don't think the reason is "totally" anything. It's a combination of everything.

One thing that has caught up to them is how they've relied too much in the past few years on basically bribing people who want playoff tickets into buying season tickets. Everyone wanted playoff tickets in 2014, so the O's dangled the carrot, and sales for 2015 season tickets (as well as expectations) shot through the roof.

I think lots of the Johnny-come-lately bandwagon O's fans (who first started to appear in 2012, went quiet in 2013 and then re-emerged in 2014) peaked with Delmon Young's double. After that, they got swept by KC, missed the playoffs in 2015, and then raised ticket prices. Like another poster mentioned in this thread, I'm sure there's a TON of people who bought 2015 plans who didn't renew in 2016.

"Thanks again for purchasing Orioles season tickets on a whim! Now that we missed the playoffs in your first season, for your 2nd season, here's a 20% price hike! Please renew today!"

Then factor in the riots....

The fans lost to the Nats....

The generation that grew up with 14 losing seasons....

The 55" inch HDTV w/surround sound coupled with a leather recliner....

The stale ticket promotions....

The Orioles MUST freshen their product, or they are going to lose die hards like myself. I'll still come to games, but I'll just start buying on stubhub for at/below STH cost.

They had their chance to retain that crowd from 2012-2014 and build their STO base but they didn't do it. They should've been doing backflips to retain those 2015 buyers, instead, they chased them away.

Now.....with attendance sharply trending down, why keep the season tickets? I've been watching stubhub lately, and with lower demand, I can go on stubhub and buy tickets to the same games in my ST plan for LESS than what I paid.

2017 attendance should be interesting if they miss the playoffs this year.

Couldn't agree more. Basically chased the people who are the real fans and stuck with them in hard times. They took the more experienced reps and had them work new sales. I was stuck with a person who had no clue and really could give two craps.I emailed Goatboy and he also could care less. 14 year season ticket holder and being treated worse then the newbies. Then after loyalty deciding to do away with my 13 game plan to a 20 game plan.. No notice just we are now winning so people will just show up and we are arrogant. We don't care if you supported the team in the tough times.. A big we don't care. I guess it backfired on Goatboy and all the others.

[Frobby]

The Post has noticed, too:

Where are the Orioles fans anyway? The team entered Tuesday ranked just 20th of 30 MLB teams in average attendance, at 26,595 -- with Cleveland the only contending team doing worse at the gate. That figure represents a decline of about 9 percent from 2015, when the team averaged 29,246.

Perhaps the answer is no more complicated than bottom-line economics. This year, for only the third time in 12 years, the Orioles raised ticket prices -- by a significant margin, averaging roughly 20 percent. Within the renewal letter mailed to season ticket holders, mention was made of the re-signings of Chris Davis and Darren O’Day over the offseason, as if to say, "You wanted us to keep our players -- now pony up."

When ticket prices go up 20 percent for a team coming off a .500 season, as the Orioles posted in 2015, a 9 percent decrease in attendance doesn’t seem so surprising -- except that one would expect attendance to shoot up in the late stages of a pennant race. And it hasn't. You can't blame it on a disconnected fan base, because the Orioles’ broadcasts on MASN rank fourth in the majors in average ratings.

Orioles players, apparently aware of the bad optics of millionaire athletes telling their fans how they should spend their money, are largely staying away from the topic, at least publicly. Center fielder Adam Jones shrugged off a question about the attendance Tuesday, saying he wasn't ready to talk about it yet. Third baseman Manny Machado gave a bloodless answer: "The fans that are here are giving us . . . all the support we need to go out there and win games."

But across the organization, it is a constant source of conversation and debate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/in-front-of-a-sparse-crowd-orioles-drop-another-critical-game-to-the-red-sox/2016/09/20/0abd233a-7f50-11e6-8d0c-fb6c00c90481_story.html

[eddie83]

The thing that just baffles me is the lack of action from the Orioles. It is as if they are making a stand and are unwilling to budge. Every year attendance suffers during school nights even with the team in contention. The Red Sox played a Tuesday, Wednesday series in August before school starts and average around 26k. Did they really think that once school was back in session things would get better? Sure if the team was on a massive winning streak it would be different buy the club has been mediocre for over 2 months. The Red Sox played here late May into June. Memorial Day had a big crowd but the next 3 days 17.6k, and then around 21K next 2 games. If the Orioles think the Red Sox are such a draw here then why wasn't attendance higher those games?

All they had to do was offer legit ticket deals this series and the Jays series. Another 5-6K in fans on the lower level looks better and the atmosphere is louder and better. Plus this whole topic would not be getting nearly as much attention. The club has done virtually nothing to market this team at all.

[eddie83]

I could buy marketing issues for some of the drop if attendance wasn't so low now. It is totally the riots last year and the record setting homicide rate. Ticket prices are insignificant to most people coming to the games. Heck I spend 20k a year on daycare for one kid. Ticket prices are cheap. Compare to any other sport.

Perhaps whomever the new mayor is will do a better job with crime. Playing games in empty stadiums was terrible marketing. Fans getting attacked. People from the suburbs with kids don't want to come down at night.

I don't know of too many people than can afford 20k for day care. That is the equivalent of about $10 an hour off someone's hourly salary.

[JohnD]

Wow, just 12 home games in the heart of summer vacation?

It seemed like it rained 5 out of 7 days a week from April to mid June, then you get to that stretch with few home games, and when they were home it was like 400 degrees outside. Sure it's all excuses, but in an era of competition for entertainment dollars, those are all legit factors.

Plus, and my view is probably clouded by some people here, I think there's a good chunk of fans who don't believe in this squad this year. People have been waiting for the other shoe to drop, or declaring it has dropped, since May.

I think sports teams in a lot of cases in general need to re-evaluate their pricing, because in most cases around here you can get tickets cheaper online from scalpers than you can from the team. With more options like stubhub and seatgeek etc, people are getting more educated and going for the cheaper route.

[JohnD]

I don't know of too many people than can afford 20k for day care. That is the equivalent of about $10 an hour off someone's hourly salary.

Unfortunately that's in the ballpark of what it costs. I think the cheapest option we found was close to $15k. A couple others were in the range of $18k. Luckily my mom decided she was ready to be a grandma and saved us a crap load of money, but not everyone has that option.

[eddie83]

Wow, just 12 home games in the heart of summer vacation?

It seemed like it rained 5 out of 7 days a week from April to mid June, then you get to that stretch with few home games, and when they were home it was like 400 degrees outside. Sure it's all excuses, but in an era of competition for entertainment dollars, those are all legit factors.

Plus, and my view is probably clouded by some people here, I think there's a good chunk of fans who don't believe in this squad this year. People have been waiting for the other shoe to drop, or declaring it has dropped, since May.

I think sports teams in a lot of cases in general need to re-evaluate their pricing, because in most cases around here you can get tickets cheaper online from scalpers than you can from the team. With more options like stubhub and seatgeek etc, people are getting more educated and going for the cheaper route.

The schedule hurt big time. 17 of 20 games in late April and May when all it did was rain. Team had very good weekend crowds in June and July but then only one home weekend series in August. Only 9 home games in July.

[eddie83]

Unfortunately that's in the ballpark of what it costs. I think the cheapest option we found was close to $15k. A couple others were in the range of $18k. Luckily my mom decided she was ready to be a grandma and saved us a crap load of money, but not everyone has that option.

Wow, I know it wasn't cheap but didn't think it was that much. Guess it depends on where you live as well. Family is cheaper but I do realize not everyone has that option.

[CP0861]

Unfortunately that's in the ballpark of what it costs. I think the cheapest option we found was close to $15k. A couple others were in the range of $18k. Luckily my mom decided she was ready to be a grandma and saved us a crap load of money, but not everyone has that option.

It varies considerably depending on where you're at and the local cost of living. I pay $8k a year for 2 kids.....and I have a buddy in DC paying $300+ each week for 1 kid.

Where I live, the options are basically limited to private "in home" places as opposed to day care "centers". The private places are more abundant and therefore cheaper.......at least over here.

[JohnD]

The professional centers in Bowie start at $1200 a month for one kid, and a couple of them were around $1500 a month. Add a second kid and it goes beyond a mortgage payment. In DC it's a crapton more.

You can scour around and find in-home options that run a lot less, but you need to know someone who knows someone. That's how I found my backup option. But when you're starting out on your own, the first places you typically turn aren't cheap anymore. It's why it's also an issue (though somewhat minor in comparison) on the presidential stage.

[atomic]

I don't know of too many people than can afford 20k for day care. That is the equivalent of about $10 an hour off someone's hourly salary.

Yeah and you can't even take it off your taxes. So there is waiting lists for daycare. Up until age 2 Maryland requires one teacher per 3 kids that is the lowest in the country. I think Mississippi the teacher can have around 9 kids at that age. You might be able to find a center a little bit cheaper but it isn't going to be a huge difference. If the center has to cover 10 hours a day at 3 kids per week I don't think the centers are making much money off the kids. The cheapest center I saw was 350 a week. That is 18k a year. Still very expensive when you consider it is after tax.

[atomic]

The professional centers in Bowie start at $1200 a month for one kid, and a couple of them were around $1500 a month. Add a second kid and it goes beyond a mortgage payment. In DC it's a crapton more.

You can scour around and find in-home options that run a lot less, but you need to know someone who knows someone. That's how I found my backup option. But when you're starting out on your own, the first places you typically turn aren't cheap anymore. It's why it's also an issue (though somewhat minor in comparison) on the presidential stage.

Yeah I think it is because of the teacher to student ratios in Maryland being low. I think the only other state close to that is Massachusetts. In Maryland they require people doing daycare at home to be licensed as well. In other states you don't need to be licensed. (For example Virginia). I think the low ratios are good but it should be at least tax deductible. If you are poor you get it for free though. Really this only effects the middle class as rich people can afford a nanny and poor people get it for free.

My cousin in Germany pays 100 euros a month for daycare as it is subsidized for everyone. Anyway this is off-topic just stating that if you have kids below the age of six the cost of going to a game is so low in comparison to other costs that I don't think it effects anyone's decisions to attend games.

[atomic]

Personally, I don't think the reason is "totally" anything. It's a combination of everything.

One thing that has caught up to them is how they've relied too much in the past few years on basically bribing people who want playoff tickets into buying season tickets. Everyone wanted playoff tickets in 2014, so the O's dangled the carrot, and sales for 2015 season tickets (as well as expectations) shot through the roof.

I think lots of the Johnny-come-lately bandwagon O's fans (who first started to appear in 2012, went quiet in 2013 and then re-emerged in 2014) peaked with Delmon Young's double. After that, they got swept by KC, missed the playoffs in 2015, and then raised ticket prices. Like another poster mentioned in this thread, I'm sure there's a TON of people who bought 2015 plans who didn't renew in 2016.

"Thanks again for purchasing Orioles season tickets on a whim! Now that we missed the playoffs in your first season, for your 2nd season, here's a 20% price hike! Please renew today!"

Then factor in the riots....

The factor of having 3 MLB teams within 120 miles sharing a small population (under 3M)....fans (albeit easily led fans) were lost to the Phillies during their run and the Nationals since they've come to DC.

The generation that grew up with 14 losing seasons....

The 55" inch HDTV w/surround sound coupled with a leather recliner....

The stale ticket promotions....

The Orioles MUST freshen their product, or they are going to lose die hards like myself. I'll still come to games, but I'll just start buying on stubhub for at/below STH cost.

They had their chance to retain that crowd from 2012-2014 and build their fan base but they didn't do it. They should've been doing backflips to retain those 2015 buyers, instead, they chased them away.

Now.....with attendance sharply trending down, why keep the season tickets? I've been watching stubhub lately, and with lower demand, I can go on stubhub and buy tickets to the same games in my ST plan for LESS than what I paid.

2017 attendance should be interesting if they miss the playoffs this year.

I will say when I had season tickets the only contact I had with my rep was an extremely negative one. I was short a ticket when my tickets were mailed and he was like that never happens check your tickets again. So I said I checked my tickets multiple times and he responded he was too busy now to do anything about it. So I went to the ticket booth at the first game I attended and they brought in a manager who was able to print out my ticket. Really nice experience there but the sales rep I would give a big negative.