Orioles Officially sign Catcher Welington Castillo

[scOtt]

1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

What would be interesting is Cather Runs Above Average that is calculated based on the pitcher that is pitching. CERA in the abstract doesn't tell you much if the guy is a "personal catcher" for the worst pitcher (like CJ was for Ubaldo). 

EXACTLY what I was trying to remember and couldn't. A few pitchers throughout MLB have their personal catchers. WAG 5 teams out of 30 have this. Some of those pitchers might be very good, some might be bad. But it throws a 16 2/3 % monkey into the wrench of the numbers overall. Far too much noise.

[Moose Milligan]

Time kills deals.  

 

Just saying...

[El Gordo]

14 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Time kills deals.  

 

Just saying...

 

He wants three years... and maybe they are waiting on Wieters.

[Moose Milligan]

27 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

He wants three years... and maybe they are waiting on Wieters.

Watch us end up with neither.  It's a possibility.  

[Legend_Of_Joey]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

Watch us end up with neither.  It's a possibility.  

There is always Nick Hundley, their "original" target (or atleast the original catcher mentioned.)

Kurt Suzuki is also a possibility. Or, if worse really came to worse, go with Joseph/Pena and put Sisco in Norfolk and have him catch everyday, along with every bullpen session and see him in September. Any injuries to Joseph/Pena, either promote within if it isn't that bad (Perez from Norfolk, Wynns from Bowie) or get a cheap trade if it is going to be bad.

[Superbee83]

11 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Some of the folks doing the studies are showing huge impacts.  Huge impacts get folks attention.

I think that you can see what looks to be evidence of framing helps as well.

My stand is that framing does happen, they can tell the good framers from the bad framers but that they don't have the ability to accurately quantify what the impact is.

 

    Who are the folks doing the studies on pitch framing?

     While I have no doubt that pitch framing is and has been impacting baseball at various levels of play, the best judges are      the umpires, pitchers, and the catchers themselves. 

    Some of the other factors that need to be considered are who is pitching and the type of pitches that are being received.

    IMO, the best framers handle the pitches with late life the best.

    For the most part, I think that this metric may be the most subjective ones to measure.

    This is one of the reasons why I am not worried that much about Castillo's pitch framing      abilities.

    

   

 

 

    

    

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Superbee83 said:

 

    Who are the folks doing the studies on pitch framing?

     While I have no doubt that pitch framing is and has been impacting baseball at various levels of play, the best judges are      the umpires, pitchers, and the catchers themselves. 

    Some of the other factors that need to be considered are who is pitching and the type of pitches that are being received.

    IMO, the best framers handle the pitches with late life the best.

    For the most part, I think that this metric may be the most subjective ones to measure.

    This is one of the reasons why I am not worried that much about Castillo's pitch framing      abilities.

    

   

 

 

    

    

They look at PitchFX and determine the guys that have the highest % of balls called strikes and lowest % of strikes called balls. Joseph has consistently rated well throughout his three seasons, and Wieters poorly. The question is how much is X number of strikes worth over the course of the season, but sometimes a bad call in either direction can turn a game.

[25 Nuggets]

8 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Time kills deals.  

 

Just saying...

Feels like only the Orioles take this long with a player like Wellington Castillo.

[Superbee83]

37 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

They look at PitchFX and determine the guys that have the highest % of balls called strikes and lowest % of strikes called balls. Joseph has consistently rated well throughout his three seasons, and Wieters poorly. The question is how much is X number of strikes worth over the course of the season, but sometimes a bad call in either direction can turn a game.

Thanks for the clarification, but I am still not buying into the process.

I think one factor that has to be considered is the umpire missing pitches.

They could be missing pitches for reasons other than the catcher's ability to "frame." ( i.e. they are not at calling balls and strikes)

I think that it is important to note that a missed call is not always the catcher's fault, often times it falls  on the umpire IMO.

 

 

 

[25 Nuggets]

9 minutes ago, Superbee83 said:

Thanks for the clarification, but I am still not buying into the process.

I think one factor that has to be considered is the umpire missing pitches.

They could be missing pitches for reasons other than the catcher's ability to "frame." ( i.e. they are not at calling balls and strikes)

I think that it is important to note that a missed call is not always the catcher's fault, often times it falls  on the umpire IMO.

 

 

 

Also the pitcher, how the pitcher delivers his pitches, where he starts and finishes, how the pitch itself moves, etc. can affect what looks like a ball and strike.

[Superbee83]

1 minute ago, 25 Nuggets said:

Also the pitcher, how the pitcher delivers his pitches, where he starts and finishes, how the pitch itself moves, etc. can affect what looks like a ball and strike.

   I agree

   As I stated in an earlier post I think the true measure of how well a catcher "frames' is how well He handles a pitch that 

  has late life.

  Overall, I think that rating how well a catcher frames based on strikes gained or lost by FX is rudimentary at best 

   and a bit unfair at worst. 

  

 

   

 

 

[Frobby]

People are acting as if we've already signed the guy.   If and when we actually sign him to a contract, I'll pass judgment on whether the deal was a good one.    It will be interesting to see what Wieters gets, too.   I'd only observe that if there turns out to be a big disparity between what the two receive, that's because the market didn't believe they had equal value.   Either could be had right now, and teams will make their choices based on their professional judgment of how good they're each likely to be going forward, all factors considered.   We'll see if the market agrees with the people who have posted their views.

[weams]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

They look at PitchFX and determine the guys that have the highest % of balls called strikes and lowest % of strikes called balls. Joseph has consistently rated well throughout his three seasons, and Wieters poorly. The question is how much is X number of strikes worth over the course of the season, but sometimes a bad call in either direction can turn a game.

I don't think it is even that precise. I think the personal catching element and the impact of which umpire caught a small sample size in platoons or backup situations muddies it even more. 

[thezeroes]

I think it is a NEW Talking point for both Pundits and Agents.  Too many variables to actually judge fairly unless they also state which umpires are best at calling "Framed Pitches" and that AIN'T going to happen.

[Enjoy Terror]

Are we still nearing a deal with Castillo?

Or can we rename this thread "Welington Castillo is a catcher and the Orioles need one"?