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Manny's extreme open stance is killing the O's


wildcard

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I mentioned this in the all things Manny thread but it got little attention.

MASN showed a comparison of Manny's stance between last year and this year.  The difference was very noticeable.  Manny stance is much more open now.  Palmer explained that with his current  stance he can't reach the outside of the plate.   Also he has to swing his leg back toward the plate to square up a pitch.   That is a lot of motion.  Much more than last year.

If Palmer and MASN can see this so does the rest of the league.   Which leaves me to wonder why Manny keeps doing it instead of the stance that allowed him to have a very good year last year.

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It's very obvious to me that his stance is more open than previously.    I also feel like he's swinging for the fences on every pitch.    But I'm sure he's seen film and talked to his coaches.    Why they're not changing anything is beyond me.   

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Swinging for the fences is the main problem, the open stance doesn't help

Is he that open because he isn't quick enough to handle inside pitches?

leaving him vulnerable to outside pitches.

He's getting a steady diet of breaking stuff on the outside corner and he is expanding the zone. Doesn't seem to be able to recognize the pitches, just like CD

This season he will regress in every offensive category, at the age of 24

Nick Markakis peaked at 25, and never approached his earlier prowess... it happens

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1 hour ago, Frobby said:

It's very obvious to me that his stance is more open than previously.    I also feel like he's swinging for the fences on every pitch.    But I'm sure he's seen film and talked to his coaches.    Why they're not changing anything is beyond me.   

The player has to want to change . Coaches recommend things and players either put it into practice or not. I think Manny can come around if he goes with the pitch more. You can't take an outside pitch and try to pull in into the seats. Also you have to shorten your swing with two strikes. Can't come out of your shoes every swing. His swing is so long now it is just a matter of time before he hits a catcher in the head on the backswing..

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1 hour ago, wildcard said:

I mentioned this in the all things Manny thread but it got little attention.

MASN showed a comparison of Manny's stance between last year and this year.  The difference was very noticeable.  Manny stance is much more open now.  Palmer explained that with his current  stance he can't reach the outside of the plate.   Also he has to swing his leg back toward the plate to square up a pitch.   That is a lot of motion.  Much more than last year.

If Palmer and MASN can see this so does the rest of the league.   Which leaves me to wonder why Manny keeps doing it instead of the stance that allowed him to have a very good year last year.

He may be scuffling but he is not the main reason the O's are having troubles. The pitching is the main problem. 

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I think Manny has got caught up in the team "approach."  You hear Bordick talk about passing the baton, what team is he watching?  

When Manny came up he was a line to line hitter that was on pace to break the all time doubles record for a single season.  Now he's trying to be Giancarlo Stanton.  

For how great Manny is he is still just 24.  Impressionable.  Schoop and Manny took well to the Adam Jones/Chris Davis style of hitting.  

People think just because the guy is set to make an absurd amount of money that he still doesn't need vets around him with good approaches.  Manny would be doing Trout/Harper type things if he were on the Red Sox or Yankees.  

DD has had several opportunites to reshape the team.  Now he is boxed in with long term deals to Davis and Trumbo.  The core of Manny, Schoop and Jones are too similar.  

The blame ultimately falls squarely on Manny.  He's good enough now to know the right approach.  He choosing to hit this way.  Buck is the ultimate players manager and at this point I don't think we want to rock the boat too hard with Manny.  

Who knows if these guys would have signed with us, but how different would this team be if Matt Holliday were at DH and Dexter Fowler was in LF/RF?  Heck even Cruz and Markakis.  

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36 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Frobby had mentioned this previously.  When was the video from last year?  He was at his best in the first half.  It certainly would be interesting to know if, when, and why he opened up more.  If it's as significant as you guys are suggesting, I doubt that it was a gradual subconscious type of thing.

Palmer and Thorne just said last year.  No date.

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3 hours ago, Going Underground said:

The player has to want to change . Coaches recommend things and players either put it into practice or not. I think Manny can come around if he goes with the pitch more. You can't take an outside pitch and try to pull in into the seats. Also you have to shorten your swing with two strikes. Can't come out of your shoes every swing. His swing is so long now it is just a matter of time before he hits a catcher in the head on the backswing..

 

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This is an interesting topic, and it certainly makes you wonder how that stance may be affecting him.  So I pulled some tape and looked at a comparison from early last June against KC and this April against Boston (ironically easily pulled of the internet because they were both times when Manny was getting thrown at).  With apologies for not being able to post the screen caps from the video, his stance looks identical between those two games.  So the more closed stance must've been from earlier last year (likely April/May timeframe).  As someone pointed out, he did have his strongest months (1.061 OPS in April, .951 in May, .996 in June) so depending on when he did start messing with his stance, it could've had an impact.

At this rate this year, though, I'm willing to try just about anything.  Close that thang back up!

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Since July 1st of last year, Manny is slashing .240/.297/.447/.743 with 29 Hr, 43 BB, 110 K in 583 PA over 132 games. The power is still there but he seems to be sacrificing OBP and average to make it happen.

From July 1, 2015 to June 30, 2016, Machado slashed .299/.372/.539/.911 with 37 HR, 69 BB, 115K in 713 PA over 159 games.

That's a pretty substantial drop off and suggests that this may be more than just a slump, but a guy who has changed his approach to try and put up power numbers by thinking that's how he'll get paid. 

We all  hope he will go back to being the superstar Manny, but the disinterest he seems to be showing on the field shows something is bothering him. Whether it's because he's thinking about his contract already or just because he's changed his approach, at the end of the day he's not producing like the Manny we thought he was for almost a year now.

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1 minute ago, O's are Legends said:

MLB network had a stat up. Machado has the lowest batting average against fastballs for all MLB regulars, was around .170, yikes.

That's probably a similar avg against the fastball  as if he was hitting off an elite HOF.  And he's not of course, he's hitting against mediocre pitchers too.

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14 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Since July 1st of last year, Manny is slashing .240/.297/.447/.743 with 29 Hr, 43 BB, 110 K in 583 PA over 132 games. The power is still there but he seems to be sacrificing OBP and average to make it happen.

From July 1, 2015 to June 30, 2016, Machado slashed .299/.372/.539/.911 with 37 HR, 69 BB, 115K in 713 PA over 159 games.

That's a pretty substantial drop off and suggests that this may be more than just a slump, but a guy who has changed his approach to try and put up power numbers by thinking that's how he'll get paid. 

We all  hope he will go back to being the superstar Manny, but the disinterest he seems to be showing on the field shows something is bothering him. Whether it's because he's thinking about his contract already or just because he's changed his approach, at the end of the day he's not producing like the Manny we thought he was for almost a year now.

I don't assign any improper motives to Manny.    He's clearly very frustrated with his recent performance.    I believe he's a good teammate and wants to win badly.   If anything, he's probably trying too hard at the plate.    He needs to relax and let the game come to him.   

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6 hours ago, birdwatcher55 said:

My thoughts: Machado is not a superstar and secondly the league has figured out how to get him out. Good player but certainly not worth the $30 mil someone is going to pay him in 2019.

Agreed.

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4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don't assign any improper motives to Manny.    He's clearly very frustrated with his recent performance.    I believe he's a good teammate and wants to win badly.   If anything, he's probably trying too hard at the plate.    He needs to relax and let the game come to him.   

I don't doubt any of this, but with people starting to talk contracts and such, he would be inhuman if he's not thinking about it a bit. I do think Manny wants to win badly, but I also think Manny likes the 450 foot home runs and fantastic diving plays that make all the shows and become internet clips. 

He loses focus when things aren't going his or the team's way at times. It's something he needs to improve upon as he matures. He's only 24 years old we all have to remember that about him. I think he'll bounce back, but only if he starts to hit to all fields again.

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