Miley and Ubaldo's last chance

[Phantom]

23 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

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Made up excuse: I'm on one of those emoticon free computers.

[Frobby]

28 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

 

I don't like Ubaldo and Miley, and the fact that they haven't been released shows a bit of the hypocrisy of the presumption of parity in the league  (the Red Sox are paying $40 million to Sandoval, Craig and Castillo) and are relatively unaffected competitively by the failure to to allocate that money well.  Meanwhile the Orioles are forced to start bad pitchers because they can't afford to pay them not to play.

 

Sure they can afford to pay them not to play.    It's just a matter of whether they have someone who is clearly better to throw out there.    And we really don't know the answer to that.    I'm sure the $200 k or so we'd have to pay Asher if we promoted him for the rest of the year and released Ubaldo is not what's stopping us from making that move.    What's stopping us is the knowledge that Ubaldo sometimes gets on a roll of 7-8 good starts (see the end of last year) that would be better than what Asher is likely to produce.   So the O's are reluctant to pull the trigger.    

[El Gordo]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

In the rotation.   Here is where I think the O's are with these two players.

The O's are tittering on the edge of contention.   They can no longer afford to wait for their starters to perform well.  Both Miley and Ubaldo had bad outings to start the 2nd half.   I think their next starts tonight and tomorrow night will be critical to them staying in the rotation.   Bleier and Asher are ready  for  shots at the rotation.

I am not saying that Miley and/or Ubaldo will be DFA.  Rather there is a better chance that one or both will be moved to the pen.

This is not unlike what happened last year when Wilson nd Wright were taken out the rotation and replaced with Bundy and Miley.

"tittering"? What an image.

[LA2]

We could carry one pitcher, as our number 5, with Miley's or Ubaldo's inconsistency, and still contend--but not both. I'd drop Miley even though he's our only southpaw. When Ubaldo is on it's really impressive. When Miley is, you wonder why.

[El Gordo]

I'd send Miley to the pen. He's usually good through a line up once. Bring up Asher and continue with Ubaldo's box of chocolates.

[Il BuonO]

4 hours ago, wildcard said:

In the rotation.   Here is where I think the O's are with these two players.

The O's are tittering on the edge of contention.   They can no longer afford to wait for their starters to perform well.  Both Miley and Ubaldo had bad outings to start the 2nd half.   I think their next starts tonight and tomorrow night will be critical to them staying in the rotation.   Bleier and Asher are ready  for  shots at the rotation.

I am not saying that Miley and/or Ubaldo will be DFA.  Rather there is a better chance that one or both will be moved to the pen.

This is not unlike what happened last year when Wilson nd Wright were taken out the rotation and replaced with Bundy and Miley.

Bleier and Asher are ready for spots in the rotation? Based on what? Someone had a good observation regarding Bleier. That is, he's been good in short stints, but the low SO rate might not play well as a starter. 

Asher has not been good. 

If Miley and Jimenez are pulled from the rotation I'll be surprised, but if they are then there are better choices available.

[wildcard]

3 hours ago, Il BuonO said:

Bleier and Asher are ready for spots in the rotation? Based on what? Someone had a good observation regarding Bleier. That is, he's been good in short stints, but the low SO rate might not play well as a starter. 

Asher has not been good. 

If Miley and Jimenez are pulled from the rotation I'll be surprised, but if they are then there are better choices available.

Who is a better choice?

Bleier has had success as a starter in the minor is 2015.  He when 14- 5 with a 2.57 ERA at AA/AAA.   Since that he has shown he can get major leaguers out going 2-1 with a 1.59 ERA in 56.2 IP in the majors.    He has done enough to get a shot at starting and the O's need him in the rotation.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=bleier001ric

Asher can a 3 quality starts the year vs Toronto and against Boston twice.   He has has two bad starts vs Houston and Washington.   In the other start he went 5 inning and gave up 2 vs the White Sox but Buck did not pull he when he allow back to back singles in the 6th.  Instead Buck left him in to walk Frazier and give up a homer to Davidson.   If Buck would have pulled him at the first sign of troulble in the sixth those 4 runs might not have been charged to him.    He could easily had 4 good starts and 2 bad one.

He also went 2-1 with a  2.28 ERA in 5 starts with the Phillies last year.

He has had 4 starts in AAA this year and has a 2,25 ERA,  

Overall that he has been good enough over the last two years to deserve another chance at the rotation,

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=asher-001ale

So if you can find two pitchers that are better than Bleier and Asher to replace Ubaldo and Miley I would like to see who you are talking about.

We are a little over 40 days away from roster expanding in September when Buck can add more relievers with the expanded roster.  Then he can reduce the workload on the starters.  Wotherspoon, Rodriguez,  Scott and Long maybe be able to help at that point.  But for now the O's need to put the best starters they have in the rotation and rely on the pen to help they stay in contention.  JMO.

[PaulFolk]

6 hours ago, El Gordo said:

I'd send Miley to the pen. He's usually good through a line up once. Bring up Asher and continue with Ubaldo's box of chocolates.

This isn't true, at least not this year. Opposing hitters are batting .331/.412/.483/.895 against Miley the first time through the lineup.

In fact Miley has had his most success the third time through the lineup (.214/.313/.327/.639). That's probably because he often doesn't even get to face the lineup a third time unless he's pitching well that day.

So I don't think Miley is well-suited for relief.

[sportsfan8703]

At this point we need guys that can battle at the very least.  Ubaldo just doesn't have it all the time.  It's tough to be out of the game in the 2nd inning.  

Really I think we need to DFA Ubaldo and Kim.  Go to an 8 man pen and keep one of Asher, Aquino, Ynoa and Wilson fresh.  Don't let games get out of hand.  Use Hart and Castro to get you out of early jams.  Then let one of Asher, Aquino, Ynoa, Wilson, start the next inning fresh with no runners on.  

Kim and Ubaldo are dead money.  They offer nothing to this club.  

[El Gordo]

3 minutes ago, PaulFolk said:

This isn't true, at least not this year. Opposing hitters are batting .331/.412/.483/.895 against Miley the first time through the lineup.

In fact Miley has had his most success the third time through the lineup (.214/.313/.327/.639). That's probably because he often doesn't even get to face the lineup a third time unless he's pitching well that day.

So I don't think Miley is well-suited for relief.

What is his era through the first 9 batters?

[Il BuonO]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Who is a better choice?

Bleier has had success as a starter in the minor is 2015.  He when 14- 5 with a 2.57 ERA at AA/AAA.   Since that he has shown he can get major leaguers out going 2-1 with a 1.59 ERA in 56.2 IP in the majors.    He has done enough to get a shot at starting and the O's need him in the rotation.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=bleier001ric

Asher can a 3 quality starts the year vs Toronto and against Boston twice.   He has has two bad starts vs Houston and Washington.   In the other start he went 5 inning and gave up 2 vs the White Sox but Buck did not pull he when he allow back to back singles in the 6th.  Instead Buck left him in to walk Frazier and give up a homer to Davidson.   If Buck would have pulled him at the first sign of troulble in the sixth those 4 runs might not have been charged to him.    He could easily had 4 good starts and 2 bad one.

He also went 2-1 with a  2.28 ERA in 5 starts with the Phillies last year.

He has had 4 starts in AAA this year and has a 2,25 ERA,  

Overall that he has been good enough over the last two years to deserve another chance at the rotation,

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=asher-001ale

So if you can find two pitchers that are better than Bleier and Asher to replace Ubaldo and Miley I would like to see who you are talking about.

We are a little over 40 days away from roster expanding in September when Buck can add more relievers with the expanded roster.  Then he can reduce the workload on the starters.  Wotherspoon, Rodriguez,  Scott and Long maybe be able to help at that point.  But for now the O's need to put the best starters they have in the rotation and rely on the pen to help they stay in contention.  JMO.

I already gave you the low SO rate as to why Bleier could be questionable as a starter. 

As for Asher, you cherry-picked one good year at Philly. His first year he stunk over seven starts, like 42 hits over 29 innings w only 16 SO and 10 BB. His career ERA is 5.71. So, slightly better this year at 5.53, but hardly 'deserving'.

I know the other choices don't have good numbers at Norfolk, but sometimes you look at how a guy's stuff plays against ML hitters in place of that.

Two guys who both have better stuff than Asher or Bleier are Aquino and Ynoa.

It was Ynoa's misfortune to have an injury right after throwing a good game for the Orioles. Now, they may have sent him back down anyway, but I watched that game and thought he had a good presence on the mound. He showed good life on the FB at 92-95 mph and a good slider.

Aquino is more finesse but still, good stuff. 

If it was only between Bleier and Asher I suppose I'd say Bleier just to see how he does in that role.

But Castro is now obviously in the picture for the future, too. And again, looks like better stuff to me.

 

 

[Cumberbundy]

Castillo just got Miley a K without Miley throwing one ball over the plate. Miley is grotesque.

[Cumberbundy]

Nice move Duq!

[wildcard]

Miley needs to go to the pen.  O's can't allow Miley to keep giving up sooo many runs.  Bleier to the rotation would mean no-one goes to AAA.

[sportsfan8703]

Aquino in AAA tonight, 6IP 1ER.  Has a lot of "want to" as Buck would say.