The top 8 prospects in baseball are international signees

[spiritof66]

14 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

With the slotting system in place Mr Angelos needs to find a new excuse.

And a draft is a terrible idea that exists only to make the owners more money.

He doesn't need an excuse. It's his team, and he does with it as he wishes, including running its future into the ground and putting his hired hands out there to answer for him. 

[eddie83]

23 hours ago, hoosiers said:

I personally think this is a convenient story-line for the GM.  It is inconceivable to me that the owner would spend to one amount in a concept that was working under AM and then regress from that ...  Or spend for Reyes, Peralta, Miranda and others and pull back from that.

How much more are you saying they spent with AM?

I don't get your point. The three names you mentioned DD signed. 

Once again Dan stated publicly that it is the owners prerogative. Why would he make his own job harder? https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/notes-baltimore-orioles-need-farm-system-to-develop-gems-041817%3famp=true

[hoosiers]

Sure, Eddie - the three names mentioned were signed by DD.  They were used as examples of the expansion of international spend from when AM was in charge to when DD was in charge.  We appear to have pulled back from the increased level of international spend that existed earlier in DD's time here.  That's frustrating.

DD can say whatever he wants.  Do you believe him?  I don't.  He's been saying since he was hired that he would focus on signing major league free agents with strong OBP.  That he would build up the farm system.  There is a big difference between what DD says and what he does - like most GMs. 

[sportsfan8703]

In 2014 we signed ONE guy for over 100k. Miguel Gonzalez(not that one).  Here is the list for all of the over 100k signings that year.  

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/team-team-international-signings-tracker/#omH2DZYHU7kgs0Ex.97

Our guy, still on the island. 

http://m.milb.com/milb/player/660428

[eddie83]

10 hours ago, hoosiers said:

Sure, Eddie - the three names mentioned were signed by DD.  They were used as examples of the expansion of international spend from when AM was in charge to when DD was in charge.  We appear to have pulled back from the increased level of international spend that existed earlier in DD's time here.  That's frustrating.

DD can say whatever he wants.  Do you believe him?  I don't.  He's been saying since he was hired that he would focus on signing major league free agents with strong OBP.  That he would build up the farm system.  There is a big difference between what DD says and what he does - like most GMs. 

Why would he not want to spend Internationally? Why? You are accusing him of lying about his boss in public. If he is lying, is he trying to get fired? This isn't your typical GM lip service. I don't think too many people would lie about their boss in public. This wasn't some off the record conversation. 

I think your dislike of DD has convinced you that Dan is the issue here. 

[spiritof66]

12 hours ago, hoosiers said:

Sure, Eddie - the three names mentioned were signed by DD.  They were used as examples of the expansion of international spend from when AM was in charge to when DD was in charge.  We appear to have pulled back from the increased level of international spend that existed earlier in DD's time here.  That's frustrating.

DD can say whatever he wants.  Do you believe him?  I don't.  He's been saying since he was hired that he would focus on signing major league free agents with strong OBP.  That he would build up the farm system.  There is a big difference between what DD says and what he does - like most GMs. 

11 hours ago, hoosiers said:

Sure, Eddie - the three names mentioned were signed by DD.  They were used as examples of the expansion of international spend from when AM was in charge to when DD was in charge.  We appear to have pulled back from the increased level of international spend that existed earlier in DD's time here.  That's frustrating.

DD can say whatever he wants.  Do you believe him?  I don't.  He's been saying since he was hired that he would focus on signing major league free agents with strong OBP.  That he would build up the farm system.  There is a big difference between what DD says and what he does - like most GMs. 

You've called Duquette a liar and, in effect, an incompetent executive for cutting back on the team's international spending. Do you have some evidence that Duqutette made the decision or agreed with the Orioles' strategic decision not to invest, in a way that's similar to how every, or almost every, other team invests, in scouting, signing and developing Latin American players? Can you tell us why there has been no response, at least so far as I know, by anyone to what you say is his false accusation (and the view expressed by a number of journalists) that this strategic decision comes from the owner?

It appears to me that for the last twenty years or so, virtually every, if not every, owner and GM-type in baseball has understood the importance of investing in Latin American talent -- with one prominent exception, Peter Angelos. Yet you believe that the decision to "pullback" from international spending was Duquette's. (I'm not sure there was any commitment from which to pull back, as opposed to a few opportunistic signings that was consistent with a continued decision not to invest significant dollars.) 

I don't see myself as a defender of Duquette -- though I think he's done a good job overall, under circumstances that are both difficult and opaque, making his performance difficult to judge, and am very grateful for his contributions to the Orioles' getting to the postseason. I'm just interested in the truth, which tends to be elusive where this team's decision-making is concerned.

On the other hand, I've been a consistent critic of Peter Angelos' running of the Orioles for about twenty years. Based on the history of his ownership and Duquette's track record, I believe Angelos is responsible for this strategy (if you can call it that), which appears to be unique among MLB teams and seems to me best explained as another example of his foolish and self-congratulatory "I'm a self-made kid from the mean streets who made my fortune the hard way, and I'm a lot smarter than the other owners, corporate fat cats and spoiled Ivy Leaguers who follow the herd rather than going their own way" conviction. If I'm wrong about this aspect of Angelos being responsible for this aspect of undermining my favorite team, I'd sure to know that. 

Duquette can't write the checks that would be needed to hire scouts, build facilities and sign players in the Dominican or elsewhere. Duquette is a pretty good employee/yes-man, or he wouldn't have lasted in this job as long as he has, and ordinarily he wouldn't need to say that these spending decisions are not his to make. I believe Duquette took the unusual step of distancing himself from the team on this issue (perhaps after getting permission to do so) because of his concern that association with the Orioles' strategy might tar him with a role in it. My guess is that, in thinking about his reputation and post-Oriole job prospects, Duquette thinks it is important that the baseball world know that Angelos, not he, is the one making and enforcing this outlying and almost incomprehensibly (for any other owner, at least) stupid decision. 

(I might ask the same question as to who is responsible for the Orioles' spending free-agent dollars on HR hitters rather than high-OBP guys. I believe the explanation again lies with the owner's directions rather than with Duquette's dishonesty or bad decision-making.)

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

In 2014 we signed ONE guy for over 100k. Miguel Gonzalez(not that one).  Here is the list for all of the over 100k signings that year.  

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/team-team-international-signings-tracker/#omH2DZYHU7kgs0Ex.97

Our guy, still on the island. 

 

This was posted before, but it provides a nice update of life on that lonely island.  Baseball America's list of 2017 international signings shows that 29 of the 30 MLB teams made such signings.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/2017-team-team-international-signing-trackers/#joLS9rFGGfH1zuAS.97

Guess what team wasn't like everybody else? Here's a hint. The team isn't known for the strength of its MiL system, which is especially shy of middle IF prospects. Coincidence?

 

/watch?v=1WK2IzWI9-o

[Chavez Ravine]

Here is an LA Times article about the Dodgers' return to the international player market

http://fw.to/CBOKjYH
 

Quote

 

The Frank McCourt years are fading into the history books now, but remember this: The millions that McCourt and his ex-wife Jamie drained from the Dodgers treasury for private jets and side-by-side mansions and the deep thoughts of a Russian physicist and healer could have been used to buy talent for the baseball team.

In 2008, according to Baseball America, major league clubs combined to sign 115 international amateurs for bonuses of more than $100,000 each. The Dodgers did not sign one.

 

 

[TouchemAll]

As long as Angelos is the owner no use crying over this, he's not playing in the international gambit. If your and O's fan get used to it.

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, TouchemAll said:

As long as Angelos is the owner no use crying over this, he's not playing in the international gambit. If your and O's fan get used to it.

No use crying over it, but I find it useful to understand how the policy affects so many aspects of the team's efforts to put quality players on the field at prices it can afford. 

[Cumberbundy]

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/239881502/top-international-prospects-sign-on-july-2/

 

Its unbelievable that we don't partake in this. Just incomprehensibly obtuse on the part of ownership. Rays land the top player, Tor/Bos/NYY have top 5 prospects from the market. This (our lack of desire to participate as an mlb team) doesn't make any sense. 

[Frobby]

11 minutes ago, Cumberbundy said:

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/239881502/top-international-prospects-sign-on-july-2/

 

Its unbelievable that we don't partake in this. Just incomprehensibly obtuse on the part of ownership. Rays land the top player, Tor/Bos/NYY have top 5 prospects from the market. This (our lack of desire to participate as an mlb team) doesn't make any sense. 

OK, I'll play devil's advocate -- not that I actually believe what I'm saying, but trying to make the case.   

First of all, we are able to trade the slots, and get value that way.    We have gotten 6 or so younger players that way this year, plus part of the Hellickson deal.    So, it's not like our slots go completely to waste.

Second, after trading the slots, we then have an extra $5.7 mm to spend (that assumes we trade them all and sign absolutely nobody, which I'm sure isn't the case).     So, that money gets spent to sign free agents, sweeten the pot in trades, or out into our development or scouting systems.

Third, as someone pointed out, there are other costs associated with a heavy foreign presence -- more scouts, more facilities, etc.   That money can be redeployed elsewhere as well.

OK, I'm done making the argument.    Anybody buying it?   Not the other 29 teams, apparently.  

[Cumberbundy]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

OK, I'll play devil's advocate -- not that I actually believe what I'm saying, but trying to make the case.   

First of all, we are able to trade the slots, and get value that way.    We have gotten 6 or so younger players that way this year, plus part of the Hellickson deal.    So, it's not like our slots go completely to waste.

Second, after trading the slots, we then have an extra $5.7 mm to spend (that assumes we trade them all and sign absolutely nobody, which I'm sure isn't the case).     So, that money gets spent to sign free agents, sweeten the pot in trades, or out into our development or scouting systems.

Third, as someone pointed out, there are other costs associated with a heavy foreign presence -- more scouts, more facilities, etc.   That money can be redeployed elsewhere as well.

OK, I'm done making the argument.    Anybody buying it?   Not the other 29 teams, apparently.  

I hadn't ever read much about it until I read that article today, I didn't realize there was a signing day, that would be exciting to be a part of. 

How much does mlb.com pay to put together their database? I doubt much. It's a bit disheartening to know they're more invested than we are. The rewards are substantial and, apparently, better than what's in the mlb draft, another place we've recently been wasteful. 

We get guys teams don't want after they've gotten a great look and then give them the ability to invest more, I'd argue we're helping others more than ourselves. This owner is a real pain in the butt, but he's ours. ❤️

[Tony-OH]

Competing year and and year out is instrumentally harder when you purposely ignore a major talent stream.

 

[spiritof66]

On 7/25/2017 at 7:25 PM, Three Run Homer said:

I agree that it doesn't make sense to throw big money at 16 year olds if you haven't invested in scouting the region.  But that just underscores that the O's need to invest more resources in the region, including scouting as well as signing bonuses.    

Meaningful investment of that kind is not going to happen without a change of ownership. Our owner has decided where  he wants to spend: contracts for established major leaguers. Last year, according to Forbes, the Orioles lost money. (That appears not to include their share of MASN's profits.) Unless the ML payroll is slashed -- and I doubt that will happen -- I don't see where the money will come from to invest in a Latin American program.