Will Castillo opt out?

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Aglets said:

What if I told you guys that Caleb Joseph was 6th in the AL in terms of total WAR for catchers?  And Castillo was 12th?   Would that surprise you?   And that Caleb has done it in fewer AB?

Wouldn't surprise me as I have been paying attention.

So do you think Beef opts out or not?  Should the O's extend him?  Encourage him to opt out?

[Ruzious]

5 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

Joseph will need a backup. I wouldn't mind Castillo coming back.

Caleb's got a lifetime .650 OPS and has thrown out only 20% of baserunners this season.  He's OPSing a career high .770 this year, but he OPS'd .413 last year and his career high was .693 before this season.  

Wellington is OPSing .781 and has OPS'd as high as .813 (2 seasons ago) with a lifetime .740.  He's first in the AL in caught stealing percentage (47.6) and double plays turned (8).   He was deservedly criticised early in the year for his pitch framing, but he's been doing very well at that in the second half.  If he does come back, he'll play at least as much as Caleb.   

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Ruzious said:

Caleb's got a lifetime .650 OPS and has thrown out only 20% of baserunners this season.  He's OPSing a career high .770 this year, but he OPS'd .413 last year and his career high was .693 before this season.  

Wellington is OPSing .781 and has OPS'd as high as .813 (2 seasons ago) with a lifetime .740.  He's first in the AL in caught stealing percentage (47.6) and double plays turned (8).   He was deservedly criticised early in the year for his pitch framing, but he's been doing very well at that in the second half.  If he does come back, he'll play at least as much as Caleb.   

I don't see them letting Sisco sit in AAA on account of Caleb and Beef.  If he doesn't opt out I see him being traded.

[Aglets]

17 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Wouldn't surprise me as I have been paying attention.

So do you think Beef opts out or not?  Should the O's extend him?  Encourage him to opt out?

As I told you on the other thread, I think Beef could command a decent pay day on the open market.  Moreso than Wieters got.   I believe he will.

I'm a little uncomfortable giving the catching reigns to Joseph in 2018 (20% CS rate this year) or Sisco (22% rate this year at AAA) so I would try to keep Beef around and offer him a modest raise to keep him.   I think we are getting a good deal this year to get him for only $6M but I wouldn't to pay him to be more than say a 2 WAR guy, and even that may be pushing it.

Otherwise I think we have to go back to FA market again.

Also, for the record, those numbers do surprise me and I'm quite interested to see what Caleb is apparently doing that's so much better than Beef...........color me skeptical.

[Ruzious]

15 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If his framing is so good then how come I keep reading about all these missed strike calls from the umps in the game thread?

I never see a poster go "Beef really stole that strike with his framing!", or "Way to present that pitch Beef!".

 

Believe it or not, I can't speak for what other posters have seen and posted on the game threads.  I look at them maybe twice a month.  I can speak for myself, and I have seen him do a very good job of framing pitches over the last month or two.  

[interloper]

I dunno about Beef, but I know Cisco cannot play catcher on a major league team. 

[Ruzious]

3 minutes ago, Aglets said:

As I told you on the other thread, I think Beef could command a decent pay day on the open market.  Moreso than Wieters got.   I believe he will.

I'm a little uncomfortable giving the catching reigns to Joseph in 2018 (20% CS rate this year) or Sisco (22% rate this year at AAA) so I would try to keep Beef around and offer him a modest raise to keep him.   I think we are getting a good deal this year to get him for only $6M but I wouldn't to pay him to be more than say a 2 WAR guy, and even that may be pushing it.

Otherwise I think we have to go back to FA market again.

Also, for the record, those numbers do surprise me and I'm quite interested to see what Caleb is apparently doing that's so much better than Beef...........color me skeptical.

And frankly, I'd rather see Sisco get another year (or at least half year) at AAA and show why we should expect him to be more than an average major league catcher - both defensively and offensively.     

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Aglets said:

As I told you on the other thread, I think Beef could command a decent pay day on the open market.  Moreso than Wieters got.   I believe he will.

I'm a little uncomfortable giving the catching reigns to Joseph in 2018 (20% CS rate this year) or Sisco (22% rate this year at AAA) so I would try to keep Beef around and offer him a modest raise to keep him.   I think we are getting a good deal this year to get him for only $6M but I wouldn't to pay him to be more than say a 2 WAR guy, and even that may be pushing it.

Otherwise I think we have to go back to FA market again.

Also, for the record, those numbers do surprise me and I'm quite interested to see what Caleb is apparently doing that's so much better than Beef...........color me skeptical.

I don't think Caleb's success is sustainable.  I wasn't surprised simply because I've looked at the numbers recently.

Do you think CS% is a key stat to look for in Catchers?  Do you think being an asset in controlling the running game is a necessary skill?

[MDtransplant757]

12 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't see them letting Sisco sit in AAA on account of Caleb and Beef.  If he doesn't opt out I see him being traded.

Where would he get traded to and what would his trade market value be?

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Ruzious said:

And frankly, I'd rather see Sisco get another year (or at least half year) at AAA and show why we should expect him to be more than an average major league catcher - both defensively and offensively.     

I'd love a major league average catcher for what he will make his first six years.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, MDtransplant757 said:

Where would he get traded to and what would his trade market value be?

No clue and I don't expect much in return.  It would just be about lowering payroll and opening up a roster spot.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, interloper said:

I dunno about Beef, but I know Cisco cannot play catcher on a major league team. 

Why not?

[Ruzious]

26 minutes ago, Aglets said:

What if I told you guys that Caleb Joseph was 6th in the AL in terms of total WAR for catchers?  And Castillo was 12th?   Would that surprise you?   And that Caleb has done it in fewer AB?

WAR's a stat that doesn't seem to make sense a lot of times.  Last year, Castillo had a 2.4 WAR, and this year he's at 1.2.  But imo, last year was an off year for him, and this year, he's playing significantly better.  And 2 years ago was his best year imo, but he had just a 1.4.   

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

WAR's a stat that doesn't seem to make sense a lot of times.  Last year, Castillo had a 2.4 WAR, and this year he's at 1.2.  But imo, last year was an off year for him, and this year, he's playing significantly better.  And 2 years ago was his best year imo, but he had just a 1.4.   

Looks like you are just going by his offense.

WAR is a cumulative stat. 

In 2015 he only played in 80 games, he's only played in 70 so far this year.  Last year he played in 113.

[MDtransplant757]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

No clue and I don't expect much in return.  It would just be about lowering payroll and opening up a roster spot.

This FA market for catchers is led by 3 catchers (Lucroy, Avila, Montero) with maybe Wieters and Castillo thrown in as well. There are really only a handful teams that need a catcher at the time of writing. If we trade just for salary relief, does Wynns or Sisco come to platoon with Joseph?