So what's the rotation next year?

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Nevermore said:

Which? Harvey being traded by DD for garbage or a rental? Or DD being gone by the 2018 season?  Or both?

Harvey won't be traded.    

[wildcard]

Bundy, Gausman, Castro.

The O's will re-sign and rehab Tillman on a make good contract.   They can't count on him though.

Trade Brach for a  starter.  The O's have Givens to move into a setup role and Yacabonis can be added to the relief core.

Trade Trumbo for a bad contract starter for one year.  Harvey should be ready by 2019.

I am interested in Ynoa as a long man/spot starter.  He had a very good 2nd half with the Tides.  He is probably better pitching 2 to 4 innings per outing than being a starter.   He is out of options and must stay on the team as  a reliever.   Bring him to ST and see if he can earn a spot.

[Frobby]

15 minutes ago, wildcard said:

 

Trade Brach for a  starter.  

What kind of starter do you think you're getting for one year of a set-up reliever?

[wildcard]

18 minutes ago, Frobby said:

What kind of starter do you think you're getting for one year of a set-up reliever?

I think we have seen how Dan does this.  Think of the Beckman model.  Dan finds a pitcher with potential in another organization who does not value him.  Then he packages Brach with a minor leaguer that the other organization wants.   Sometimes Dan uses international  slot money.

[El Gordo]

On 9/12/2017 at 10:40 AM, interloper said:

Assuming Miley, Ubaldo, Hellickson, and Tillman are gone:

1. Dylan Bundy

2. Kevin Gausman

3. ?

4. ?

5. ?

I would have slotted Castro in at #3 there, but he's been struggling of late and I'm not sure you can just plug him right in. He's an option though, if they stretch him out.

Asher has a year of control left, so he's an option. Ynoa is under control for awhile, he's an option. Both are young guys who could improve, or they're just scrubs. 

Mike Wright is bad, but for some reason perpetually an option. Wilson is still in the system, and is also bad. 

Chris Lee is kicking around.

Tanner Scott, doubtful. 

---

If I were the Orioles, I'd use all this extra salary space to sign an actual, honest-to-god GOOD starting pitcher and fill the remaining two slots with guys currently in the system or a couple budget pickups.

Bundy and Gaus then burn down the house.

[OriolesMagic83]

I would like the O's to sign Cobb and Estrada.

They would both be middle of the rotation starters, although Cobb has more upside, IMO.

1. Bundy

2. Cobb

3. Estrada

4. Gausman

5. Some minor leaguer or dumpster dive, or even Tillman on a small contract.

I just don't see any minor league pitchers who are ready to take a rotation spot.  Giving one of our minor leaguers the #5 spot would be better than bringing back Miley or Ubaldo.

 

Do you think the O's could sign Cobb for 4 years/$60 mill & Estrada for 2 years/$25 mill?

The O's would have to make some trades/move some contracts.  Trading Britton and moving Trumbo would do it IMO.  They would have to go cheap in the OF and C.

 

 

 

 

[Bahama O's Fan]

We do have some money coming off the books right? I see no reason to spend on position players this offseason. Let's put whatever we have into two good SP's because you know this is Buck and Dan's last year so they will be "going for it".

[wildbillhiccup]

1 hour ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

We do have some money coming off the books right? I see no reason to spend on position players this offseason. Let's put whatever we have into two good SP's because you know this is Buck and Dan's last year so they will be "going for it".

The problem is that there are not a lot of appealing FA options. I'm certainly not giving a 5 year contract a pitcher over 30. So who are you going to sign then? I suggested Chacin in another thread. 

 

Starting Pitchers

Brett Anderson (30)
Jake Arrieta (32)
Clay Buchholz (33)
Madison Bumgarner (28) — $12MM club option with a $1.5M buyout
Trevor Cahill (30)
Matt Cain (33) — $21MM club option with a $7.5MM buyout
Andrew Cashner (31)
Jhoulys Chacin (30)
Tyler Chatwood (28)
Jesse Chavez (34)
Wei-Yin Chen (32) — Can opt out of the remaining three years, $52MM on his contract
Alex Cobb (30)
Bartolo Colon (45)
Johnny Cueto (32) — Can opt out of the remaining four years, $84MM on his contract
Yu Darvish (31)
John Danks (33)
Jorge De La Rosa (37)
R.A. Dickey (43) — $8MM club option with $500K buyout
Nathan Eovaldi (28) — $2MM club option
Marco Estrada (34)
Scott Feldman (35)
Doug Fister (34)
Yovani Gallardo (32) — $13MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Jaime Garcia (31)
Matt Garza (34) — $13MM vesting option/$5MM club option (can become $1MM club option based on DL time)
Gio Gonzalez (32) – $12MM club option with $500K buyout; vests with 180 innings pitched in 2017
Miguel Gonzalez (34)
Jeremy Hellickson (31)
Derek Holland (31)
Ubaldo Jimenez (34)
Ian Kennedy (33) — Can opt out of the remaining three years, $43MM on his contract
John Lackey (39)
Francisco Liriano (34)
Jordan Lyles (27)
Lance Lynn (31)
Wade Miley (31) — $12MM club option with a $500K buyout
Mike Minor (30) — $10MM mutual option with a $1.25MM buyout
Matt Moore (29) — $9MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Jon Niese (31)
Ricky Nolasco (35) — $13MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Martin Perez (27) — $6MM club option with a $2.45MM buyout
Michael Pineda (29)
Clayton Richard (34)
Tyson Ross (31)
CC Sabathia (37)
Anibal Sanchez (34) — $16MM club option with a $5MM buyout
Hector Santiago (30)
Chris Sale (29) — $12.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Masahiro Tanaka (29) — Can opt out of the remaining three years, $67MM on his contract
Chris Tillman (30)
Josh Tomlin (33) — $3MM club option with a $750K buyout
Jason Vargas (35)
Jered Weaver (35)
Chris Young (39) — $8MM mutual option with a $1.5MM buyout

[Frobby]

I'll certainly buy Chacin as a target.   What do you think he'll command in this market?   4/$56 mm?

[wildbillhiccup]

12 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I'll certainly buy Chacin as a target.   What do you think he'll command in this market?   4/$56 mm?

Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I feel like he can be had for less. Maybe 4/$45M?  That seems like solid value to me. And I'd have no problem giving him the 4th year since he's still relatively young. Then trade Britton to get another pitcher and pencil in Castro as the 5th starter. 

How about targeting Michael Wacha via trade? Britton for Wacha and maybe a lesser prospect? Wacha's much younger then I though he was (only 26) and the Cards need a bonafide closer. That would also open up a spot in their rotation for one of their younger arms like Weaver. 

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I feel like he can be had for less. Maybe 4/$45M?  That seems like solid value to me. And I'd have no problem giving him the 4th year since he's still relatively young. Then trade Britton to get another pitcher and pencil in Castro as the 5th starter. 

How about targeting Michael Wacha via trade? Britton for Wacha and maybe a lesser prospect? Wacha's much younger then I though he was (only 26)

The fact that the FA pitching market is thin cuts in Chacin's favor, I think.    That's why I think he'll get more, but I could be wrong.  

Wacha was drafted the same year as Gausman, 15 picks behind him, and has been the much better pitcher.   I don't think the Cards would trade 2 years of Wacha for one year of Britton.  

[Gman!!]

Amen to pitching.. this the most needed and seems most neglected. Instead O's still in Earl Weaver philosophy.. wait for the 3 run homer.. unfortunately how often are there two runners on in front of the K kings? Case in point last night's game bases loaded 0 outs.. inning over no runs.  Everyone swinging for the fences.. a lot of solo HRs a lot of losses.  Mediocre team and it shows in no playoffs this year

[wildbillhiccup]

15 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The fact that the FA pitching market is thin cuts in Chacin's favor, I think.    That's why I think he'll get more, but I could be wrong.  

Wacha was drafted the same year as Gausman, 15 picks behind him, and has been the much better pitcher.   I don't think the Cards would trade 2 years of Wacha for one year of Britton.  

Well he's certainly deserving of that deal (basically a career 4.00 era pitcher) so you're probably right. 

This is just a bunch, but based on what I've read over the years I don't think the Cards like Wacha. He wasn't even penciled into their starting rotation at the beginning of last season. Is he more valuable than Britton? Probably, but I think it's a bridgeable enough gap to close with smaller pieces. I also really think the Cardinals are going to make trading for and/or signing a solid closer their number one priority in the off season. I'm sure there are other team who would be a similar trading partner fit, but the Cards are the most obvious (to me). 

The only wrinkle might be Lance Lynn. If they don't resign him they might be more inclined to keep Wacha. 

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Gman!! said:

Amen to pitching.. this the most needed and seems most neglected. Instead O's still in Earl Weaver philosophy.. wait for the 3 run homer.. unfortunately how often are there two runners on in front of the K kings? Case in point last night's game bases loaded 0 outs.. inning over no runs.  Everyone swinging for the fences.. a lot of solo HRs a lot of losses.  Mediocre team and it shows in no playoffs this year

Everybody knows we need better pitching.    How to acquire it is the question.     It seems like at least half the time, expensive FA pitchers don't work out.   We can, of course, pout once again about how we wouldn't be in this position if we hadn't traded certain young pitchers away, but that's not going to solve the current problem. 

I think back on our 2012 team -- we traded Guthrie for Hammel, who had an excellent year.    We signed Chen for 4/$17 mm out of Japan.     We picked up Gonzalez from the Mexican League.    Tillman emerged as an excellent pitcher at mid-season, after struggling in prior call-ups.   Not a single high-profile move, and yet we allowed 150 fewer runs than in 2011.     Similarly, in 2014 our one high-profile signing -- Ubaldo -- failed, and yet we allowed 100 fewer runs than the year before because of internal improvement.    It just shows you how ephemeral pitching can be.    

[Tx Oriole]

On 9/12/2017 at 10:32 PM, Frobby said:

Harvey won't be traded.    

I hope not but can we trust the FO not to do something stupid?