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So what's the rotation next year?

interloper

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Tx Oriole Hangout Grand Counsel

Tx Oriole

Posted
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1 hour ago, wildbillhiccup said:

The problem is that there are not a lot of appealing FA options. I'm certainly not giving a 5 year contract a pitcher over 30. So who are you going to sign then? I suggested Chacin in another thread. 

 

Starting Pitchers

Brett Anderson (30)
Jake Arrieta (32)
Clay Buchholz (33)
Madison Bumgarner (28) — $12MM club option with a $1.5M buyout
Trevor Cahill (30)
Matt Cain (33) — $21MM club option with a $7.5MM buyout
Andrew Cashner (31)
Jhoulys Chacin (30)
Tyler Chatwood (28)
Jesse Chavez (34)
Wei-Yin Chen (32) — Can opt out of the remaining three years, $52MM on his contract
Alex Cobb (30)
Bartolo Colon (45)
Johnny Cueto (32) — Can opt out of the remaining four years, $84MM on his contract
Yu Darvish (31)
John Danks (33)
Jorge De La Rosa (37)
R.A. Dickey (43) — $8MM club option with $500K buyout
Nathan Eovaldi (28) — $2MM club option
Marco Estrada (34)
Scott Feldman (35)
Doug Fister (34)
Yovani Gallardo (32) — $13MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Jaime Garcia (31)
Matt Garza (34) — $13MM vesting option/$5MM club option (can become $1MM club option based on DL time)
Gio Gonzalez (32) – $12MM club option with $500K buyout; vests with 180 innings pitched in 2017
Miguel Gonzalez (34)
Jeremy Hellickson (31)
Derek Holland (31)
Ubaldo Jimenez (34)
Ian Kennedy (33) — Can opt out of the remaining three years, $43MM on his contract
John Lackey (39)
Francisco Liriano (34)
Jordan Lyles (27)
Lance Lynn (31)
Wade Miley (31) — $12MM club option with a $500K buyout
Mike Minor (30) — $10MM mutual option with a $1.25MM buyout
Matt Moore (29) — $9MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Jon Niese (31)
Ricky Nolasco (35) — $13MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Martin Perez (27) — $6MM club option with a $2.45MM buyout
Michael Pineda (29)
Clayton Richard (34)
Tyson Ross (31)
CC Sabathia (37)
Anibal Sanchez (34) — $16MM club option with a $5MM buyout
Hector Santiago (30)
Chris Sale (29) — $12.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Masahiro Tanaka (29) — Can opt out of the remaining three years, $67MM on his contract
Chris Tillman (30)
Josh Tomlin (33) — $3MM club option with a $750K buyout
Jason Vargas (35)
Jered Weaver (35)
Chris Young (39) — $8MM mutual option with a $1.5MM buyout

Don't worry. Angelos won't give pitchers over 3 years.

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eddie83 Hangout Grand Counsel

eddie83

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Orioles are always in a tough spot with FA pitchers. It is known industry wide how difficult the Orioles physicals are. We all know player signings leak out before any physicals are complete. The last thing a pitcher wants to do is sign with Baltimore, fail a physical and then have to scramble to find another job.  

When Hellickson was acquired he talked about how hard it is to pitch in this division. If the Orioles offer similar money to another team who plays in a more pitcher friendly environment that is hard for a pitcher to turn down.  

I certainly don't follow it close enough to know any names but I wonder if there are any overseas pitchers like a Chen, that Dan has his interest in. That was a brilliant signing. 

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wildbillhiccup Hangout Grand Counsel

wildbillhiccup

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Posted
25 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Cashner, Darvish and Lynn are some I would consider.

Not realistic suggestions. They'll never give Darvish and Lynn big / long enough deals to entice them to sign...and they probably shouldn't either. And someone will overpay for Cashner. I don't think he's this good. You can't sustain that level of success without missing bats, which he doesn't do anymore. And he'll also never shave off that beard ;)

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wildbillhiccup Hangout Grand Counsel

wildbillhiccup

Posted
Posted
On 9/14/2017 at 8:32 AM, wildbillhiccup said:

The problem is that there are not a lot of appealing FA options. I'm certainly not giving a 5 year contract a pitcher over 30. So who are you going to sign then? I suggested Chacin in another thread. 

 

Starting Pitchers

Brett Anderson (30)
Jake Arrieta (32)
Clay Buchholz (33)
Madison Bumgarner (28) — $12MM club option with a $1.5M buyout
Trevor Cahill (30)
Matt Cain (33) — $21MM club option with a $7.5MM buyout
Andrew Cashner (31)
Jhoulys Chacin (30)
Tyler Chatwood (28)
Jesse Chavez (34)
Wei-Yin Chen (32) — Can opt out of the remaining three years, $52MM on his contract
Alex Cobb (30)
Bartolo Colon (45)
Johnny Cueto (32) — Can opt out of the remaining four years, $84MM on his contract
Yu Darvish (31)
John Danks (33)
Jorge De La Rosa (37)
R.A. Dickey (43) — $8MM club option with $500K buyout
Nathan Eovaldi (28) — $2MM club option
Marco Estrada (34)
Scott Feldman (35)
Doug Fister (34)
Yovani Gallardo (32) — $13MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Jaime Garcia (31)
Matt Garza (34) — $13MM vesting option/$5MM club option (can become $1MM club option based on DL time)
Gio Gonzalez (32) – $12MM club option with $500K buyout; vests with 180 innings pitched in 2017
Miguel Gonzalez (34)
Jeremy Hellickson (31)
Derek Holland (31)
Ubaldo Jimenez (34)
Ian Kennedy (33) — Can opt out of the remaining three years, $43MM on his contract
John Lackey (39)
Francisco Liriano (34)
Jordan Lyles (27)
Lance Lynn (31)
Wade Miley (31) — $12MM club option with a $500K buyout
Mike Minor (30) — $10MM mutual option with a $1.25MM buyout
Matt Moore (29) — $9MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Jon Niese (31)
Ricky Nolasco (35) — $13MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Martin Perez (27) — $6MM club option with a $2.45MM buyout
Michael Pineda (29)
Clayton Richard (34)
Tyson Ross (31)
CC Sabathia (37)
Anibal Sanchez (34) — $16MM club option with a $5MM buyout
Hector Santiago (30)
Chris Sale (29) — $12.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Masahiro Tanaka (29) — Can opt out of the remaining three years, $67MM on his contract
Chris Tillman (30)
Josh Tomlin (33) — $3MM club option with a $750K buyout
Jason Vargas (35)
Jered Weaver (35)
Chris Young (39) — $8MM mutual option with a $1.5MM buyout

Looks like we can cross Estrada off the potential free agent list...

MLB.com's Jon Morosi confirms that the Blue Jays have signed Marco Estrada to a one-year, $13 million contract extension.

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Going Underground Hangout Grand Counsel

Going Underground

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Posted

The Orioles don't like to go over four years for a pitcher. Three if possible. So unless they change their  philosophy, they won't get the top tier pitchers and most won't want to come anyway.

"History tells us that any [free-agent contract] over three years is a bad investment supposedly on starting pitching," Showalter said. "So, a lot of these clubs pay five years to get three or pay seven to get four. We're not going to do that. This is bad business for everybody. So, we really have to develop our own pitchers for the most part to do it right."

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal-buck-showalter-defends-clubs-current-pitching-staff-20151212-story.html

 

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

Posted
Posted
56 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Looks like we can cross Estrada off the potential free agent list...

MLB.com's Jon Morosi confirms that the Blue Jays have signed Marco Estrada to a one-year, $13 million contract extension.

Interesting choice by Estrada.   He's had a bit of an off-year, but I'd still have thought he could have gotten a 2-3 year deal on the open market.     Betting on himself to have a better year in 2018?

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Aristotelian Hangout Grand Counsel

Aristotelian

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16 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Interesting choice by Estrada.   He's had a bit of an off-year, but I'd still have thought he could have gotten a 2-3 year deal on the open market.     Betting on himself to have a better year in 2018?

$13M is pretty generous coming off a 4.84 ERA at age 34. He is not giving them a discount.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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6 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

$13M is pretty generous coming off a 4.84 ERA at age 34. He is not giving them a discount.

2.5 rWAR, 2.8 fWAR, valued at $21.1 mm by fangraphs.     When you consider it's only a one-year risk, and you look at Estrada's track record the last few years before this one, I consider it a really good deal for the Blue Jays.

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Ohfan67 Hangout Grand Counsel

Ohfan67

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Going Underground said:

The Orioles don't like to go over four years for a pitcher. Three if possible. So unless they change their  philosophy, they won't get the top tier pitchers and most won't want to come anyway.

"History tells us that any [free-agent contract] over three years is a bad investment supposedly on starting pitching," Showalter said. "So, a lot of these clubs pay five years to get three or pay seven to get four. We're not going to do that. This is bad business for everybody. So, we really have to develop our own pitchers for the most part to do it right."

 

Well they miffed a bit on the development part. They tried to get by with mediocre signings and acquisitions. Maybe they are ready to invest money into one front line free agent pitcher instead of spreading money around on the Ubaldos, Gallardos, Miley's, and Hellicksons of the world. Seems like they have a weird philosophy...it's ok to blow millions year after year on mediocre starters as long as individual starters are not signed long term. If you are going to risk 25 or more million on starting pitching you should at least invest in a pitcher with serious upside instead of blowing it on mediocrity. 

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Just Regular Hangout Grand Counsel

Just Regular

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Posted

John Lackey feels Sutcliffe-y right to me.  After a moment's consideration, it feels very Oriole-ish too in a Sosa/Vlad way.

It could also be a good fit for Lackey if he wants another shot at being a rotation mainstay, perhaps even Opening Day starter - he isn't going to be that for good pitching staffs anymore.  You could probably argue reasonably the last ride 2018 Machado Orioles are as good a shot as he's going to get at future postseason starts.

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wildbillhiccup Hangout Grand Counsel

wildbillhiccup

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47 minutes ago, OrioleDog said:

John Lackey feels Sutcliffe-y right to me.  After a moment's consideration, it feels very Oriole-ish too in a Sosa/Vlad way.

It could also be a good fit for Lackey if he wants another shot at being a rotation mainstay, perhaps even Opening Day starter - he isn't going to be that for good pitching staffs anymore.  You could probably argue reasonably the last ride 2018 Machado Orioles are as good a shot as he's going to get at future postseason starts.

The thought of him pitching in the Al East at this stage of his career is frightening. Hard pass. 

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OFFNY Hangout Grand Counsel

OFFNY

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o

 

Lynn has been a very consistent starting pitcher for the Cardinals since the 2012 season.

He had Tommy John surgery in December of 2015, started rehabbing in the Minors in August of 2016, and rejoined the Cardinals' starting rotation in 2017 ........ where he picked up right where he left off before the TJ surgery.

 

Lynn is 30 years-old, and considering his consistency combined with the fact that he already has the TJ surgery out of the way (and has shown that he has apparently made a complete recovery in terms of effectiveness), I think that he would be a much-needed addition to a starting rotation that was in shambles for the better part of the 2017 season.

 

Granted that the Orioles have their financial hands full with the impending free agency of Manny Machado in 2019 and Jonathan Schoop in 2020 (as well as the Chris Davis contract that runs through the 2022 season), but if they are going to choose to spend money for a proven starting pitcher, I think that Lance Lynn would be a sound investment.

 

o

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