Should Dan and Buck Continue on a One Year Contract?

[Frobby]

33 minutes ago, ORIOLE33 said:

Not a huge fan of Buck's as of late, but he's getting into the HOF. He's turned around too many franchises to not get in, plus people likes him.

There is literally nobody who has gotten into the Hall as a manager who hasn't won a World Series.   (There are some HOF players/executives who also managed who never won a WS as a manager.)    I'd think Bochy (3 WS titles) and Francona (2 WS titles and a pennant, and possibly more this year) definitely would get in before Buck.    Then you've got Dusty Baker (359 more wins, one WS appearance, 9 playoff appearances) and Mike Scoscia (66 more wins, 7 playoff appearances one WS championship).    I'm not 100% sure those two guys would get in ahead of Buck, but I'd be surprised if they didn't.    You've got guys like Piniella, Leyland and Houk who've won more games, won a WS and aren't in.    Buck's definitely not getting in without a ring, and one might not get him in.

 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Frobby said:

There is literally nobody who has gotten into the Hall as a manager who hasn't won a World Series.   (There are some HOF players/executives who also managed who never won a WS as a manager.)    I'd think Boche (3 WS titles) and Francona (2 WS titles and a pennant, and possibly more this year) definitely would get in before Buck.    Then you've got Dusty Baker (359 more wins, one WS appearance, 9 playoff appearances) and Mike Scoscia (66 more wins, 7 playoff appearances one WS championship).    I'm not 100% sure those two guys would get in ahead of Buck, but I'd be surprised if they didn't.    You've got guys like Piniella, Leyland and Houk who've won more games, won a WS and aren't in.

 

 

If Buck gets in it's for his presence as much as anything.

And they should mention not using Britton on his plaque.

[ORIOLE33]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

There is literally nobody who has gotten into the Hall as a manager who hasn't won a World Series.   (There are some HOF players/executives who also managed who never won a WS as a manager.)    I'd think Bochy (3 WS titles) and Francona (2 WS titles and a pennant, and possibly more this year) definitely would get in before Buck.    Then you've got Dusty Baker (359 more wins, one WS appearance, 9 playoff appearances) and Mike Scoscia (66 more wins, 7 playoff appearances one WS championship).    I'm not 100% sure those two guys would get in ahead of Buck, but I'd be surprised if they didn't.    You've got guys like Piniella, Leyland and Houk who've won more games, won a WS and aren't in.    Buck's definitely not getting in without a ring, and one might not get him in.

 

Definitely can't justify Buck getting in over any of those guys.

[OFFNY]

18 minutes ago, Frobby said:

 

There is literally nobody who has gotten into the Hall as a manager who hasn't won a World Series.  (There are some HOF players/executives who also managed who never won a WS as a manager.) I'd think Bochy (3 WS titles) and Francona (2 WS titles and a pennant, and possibly more this year) definitely would get in before Buck. Then you've got Dusty Baker (359 more wins, one WS appearance, 9 playoff appearances) and Mike Scoscia (66 more wins, 7 playoff appearances one WS championship). I'm not 100% sure those two guys would get in ahead of Buck, but I'd be surprised if they didn't.    You've got guys like Piniella, Leyland and Houk who've won more games, won a WS and aren't in. Buck's definitely not getting in without a ring, and one might not get him in.

 

o

 

I believe that Al Lopez is the exception of 20th and 21st Century managers that are in the Hall-of-Fame without having won at least 1 World Series. He won 2 Pennants with the Indians (1954) and the White Sox (1959.)

He was elected to the Hall-of-Fame as a manager, and not as a player.

Lopez had a decent career as a player (1,547 career hits, and a .261 career batting average), but from what I understand, the Baseball Hall-of-Fame does not combine your playing career with your managerial career to supplement each other. You either have to make it as one or the other.

 

o

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

I believe that Al Lopez is the exception of 20th and 21st Century managers that are in the Hall-of-Fame without having won at least 1 World Series. He won 2 Pennants with the Indians (1954) and the White Sox (1959.)

He was elected to the Hall-of-Fame as a manager, and not as a player.

Lopez had a decent career as a player (1,547 career hits, and a .261 career batting average), but from what I understand, the Baseball Hall-of-Fame does not combine your playing career with your managerial career to supplement each other. You either have to make it as one or the other.

 

o

I stand corrected.    I assumed Lopez had gotten in as a player, but you're right.   I do think that having had a decent major league career boosts a manager's chances of getting into the HOF even if not formally a factor.    In Lopez's case, in addition to the facts you mentioned, he was 11th all-time in managerial wins when he retired, and had an extremely high winning percentage (.584, just better than Earl Weaver).   He really did have a pretty sterling resume, though no ring.  

[Tx Oriole]

7 hours ago, phillyOs119 said:

I think Buck needs to go (I like him, I just think the O's need a new face, he's gotten too comfortable with the team).  DD either needs to go or be re-upped.  

I agree with you about Buck. But I think DD needs to go too.

[Tx Oriole]

2 hours ago, ORIOLE33 said:

Not a huge fan of Buck's as of late, but he's getting into the HOF. He's turned around too many franchises to not get in, plus people likes him.

I like Buck too. And I like DD. But they just need to go. I think they are good people. But this franchise needs a change. IMO

[tntoriole]

They need to perform this year or be fired.  That is just the way sports goes.  No extension for either at this point.  As I have said before, I would change GMs right now,  but the old man isn’t going to do that.   So, if they get to the playoffs next year, then they can be extended if they want, but a losing record?  Buh-bye!   

And Buck is a good manager but no way he makes the HOF.  Maybe the Orioles HOF.  

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

What makes you think that getting into the HOF is a big goal of Buck's?    To my knowledge, he's never said a thing about it.    I doubt he'd get there even if he won a World Series -- the bar is high, and he's got several contemporaries who have better or equal credentials.    I'm sure he'd love to win a World Series, but not because that's going to get him in the Hall.

Buck is more politically  savvy then to talk about the HOF for himself.   But no manager gets as high on the wins list as he is without thinking about it.   He is only 61.  He has years of managing ahead on him if he wants to continue managing.   Baker is 68.   

Buck has been manager of the year three times.   He needs to manager for at least 5-7  more years and he  needs to win a World Series to be voted in. 

[O's are Legends]

It hasn't been a issue for Dusty Baker or Joe Girardi this season. Don't see why it would be a issue for DD or Buck.

[Ohfan67]

16 hours ago, flyhighbirds said:

The big problem is you need a gm who will get in Angelos face and tell him the team needs to rebuild.   And I think that the problem is that Duquette and Buck won't do that for some strange reason.     Buck is too loyal to his players.   Machado and Jones should be traded right now.       Duquette is in the last year of his contract and he has no motivation to do anything.    I truly believe Angelos can be swayed, but we don't have the right guys with the will to do it.   Therefore one of them or both have to go imo.   Duquette had no problem declaring he wanted to go to Toronto.   I truly believe he has the power to make trades to rebuild, but for some strange reason doesn't want to do it.

Ha! Oh man. Yeah, they won’t do that for some strange reason. What’s wrong with those wimpy guys!? Giggle, giggle. 

[brooksfrankjim]

If there was a Hall of Very Good, Buck would get in.  He needs a ring for Cooperstown.

[Aristotelian]

17 hours ago, El Gordo said:

Don't think so. I think he's tired of being on the road, and would like the power of GM.

If you think the Buck-Dan relationship has some tension, I think Buck-Peter would be a disaster.

[El Gordo]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

If you think the Buck-Dan relationship has some tension, I think Buck-Peter would be a disaster.

I don't. PA trusts Buck more than Dan. 

[webbrick2010]

Buck genuinely likes his guys... and his guys stink so that tell me he needs to go

DD Blunders:

Jim Johnson, Jake Arietta, Zach Davies, Parker Bridwell, Wade Miley, Yovanni Gallardo, Moon, Kim, Hardy, O'day, Chris Davis, Trumbo, Travis Snyder, Britton.

No extensions of young core, No top 25 starting pitchers developed, no increase in OBP, no speed, league worst OF defense

170 million dollars spent on a truly last place talent roster, DD should have been fired years ago