Orioles infielders fail to convert grounders into outs

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, webbrick2010 said:

Fine for a last place team willing to have bad defense at SS and horrendous defense in CF (Jones)

Eventually the O's will have to find a major leaguer to play SS

Care to show me evidence that his defense at short qualifies as "bad"?  Bad ranks lower than below average right?

[webbrick2010]

32 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Care to show me evidence that his defense at short qualifies as "bad"?  Bad ranks lower than below average right?

Well prior to last year with the O's he only played 403 innings, about 45 games at SS   kinda makes me think Tampa didn't like him at SS

After last year he is up to about 150 games at SS and had a negative FSR and a slightly positive UZR/150... so maybe he is league average.

His career WRC+ is 97 so a league average hitter

He basically has never been a full season starter.... and I think there is a reason for that

 

[spiritof66]

53 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Beckham would be fine if you left him at SS.  That problem might resolve itself if Manny is wearing Dodger blue.  

It depends on what you mean by "fine." Just as Larry Kroger was at the top of the Delta pledge class with his 1.2 GPA, Beckham could be the best defensive infielder on the Orioles, and having him out there isn't embarrassing. He's at best a ML-average defender, and I think more time there will show that he's worse than that. He sure won't anchor the IF defensively the way shortstops do on most good teams. That's apart from the questions about his offense. The post-Manny Orioles should keep Beckham, preferably to play SS, only as long as there are there aren't other options.

But many of us are looking for ways to put together a team of guys who are a few notches above non-embarrassing. If we're trying to build a future contender, we need three infielders, and I don't think any of them is in the system now. (We have at least a hope of developing everything else internally.) One high draft choice and two-plus infield/.// prospects for Manny and Schoop/Britton  would be a good way to go about this, IMO.  

[El Gordo]

3 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:

I'm really tired of hearing this. The problem is not Manny at SS, he is going to be pretty good

The problem is that Tim Beckham is not a STARTING ML INFIELDER. Why can't people understand this. He never has been never will be a ML quality infielder. How's Tampa's infield looking without him? Think they knew what he is?

and they did not address infield depth with a defensive wiz like Ryan Flaherty, and instead added more DH's (Alvarez, Valencia)

Point in fact Manny's UZR so far, is well below average at SS while Beckham's at 3B is above..

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 hour ago, spiritof66 said:

It depends on what you mean by "fine." Just as Larry Kroger was at the top of the Delta pledge class with his 1.2 GPA, Beckham could be the best defensive infielder on the Orioles, and having him out there isn't embarrassing. He's at best a ML-average defender, and I think more time there will show that he's worse than that. He sure won't anchor the IF defensively the way shortstops do on most good teams. That's apart from the questions about his offense. The post-Manny Orioles should keep Beckham, preferably to play SS, only as long as there are there aren't other options.

But many of us are looking for ways to put together a team of guys who are a few notches above non-embarrassing. If we're trying to build a future contender, we need three infielders, and I don't think any of them is in the system now. (We have at least a hope of developing everything else internally.) One high draft choice and two-plus infield/.// prospects for Manny and Schoop/Britton  would be a good way to go about this, IMO.  

I'm by no means advocating for Beckham to be the long term shortstop.  I wanted to keep Manny at third, but with the Seager injury playing Manny SS might payoff now.

[El Gordo]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Care to show me evidence that his defense at short qualifies as "bad"?  Bad ranks lower than below average right?

His UZR is curretly the lowest among qualifying SS at -2.1 https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=11493&position=3B

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Care to show me evidence that his defense at short qualifies as "bad"?  Bad ranks lower than below average right?

 

2 hours ago, El Gordo said:

His UZR is curretly the lowest among qualifying SS at -2.1 https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=11493&position=3B

I believe Corn was referring to Beckham, not Manny.    In any event, I will bet on Manny being in the plus column after 162 games have been played.   

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

 

I believe Corn was referring to Beckham, not Manny.    In any event, I will bet on Manny being in the plus column after 162 games have been played.   

You are correct.

[El Gordo]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

 

I believe Corn was referring to Beckham, not Manny.    In any event, I will bet on Manny being in the plus column after 162 games have been played.   

I think so too. Beckham was an above average SS last season, 2.8 UZR/150 in spite of his miscues.

[Going Underground]

So Buck said in the article we may need to change things.I guess Alvarez again at third should make it better. Too funny.

[sportsfan8703]

9 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:

I'm really tired of hearing this. The problem is not Manny at SS, he is going to be pretty good

The problem is that Tim Beckham is not a STARTING ML INFIELDER. Why can't people understand this. He never has been never will be a ML quality infielder. How's Tampa's infield looking without him? Think they knew what he is?

and they did not address infield depth with a defensive wiz like Ryan Flaherty, and instead added more DH's (Alvarez, Valencia)

Beckham is a below average defender that was on pace to strike out 200 times. We may be stuck with him for a year or two because we literally have no 3B/SS/2B depth anywhere in full season ball. 

[atomic]

I wonder what the Orioles record with Hardy in the line-up vs.  him out of the line-up the past 6 years. I can deal with a .500 OPS a lot easier than from other players. 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, atomic said:

I wonder what the Orioles record with Hardy in the line-up vs.  him out of the line-up the past 6 years. I can deal with a .500 OPS a lot easier than from other players. 

57-72 (12-21)

93-65 (0-4)

83-76 (2-1)

83-58 (13-8)

64-48 (17-33)

61-54 (28-19)

35-35 (40-52)

================

476-408 (112-138)

 

 

[Ohfan67]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

57-72 (12-21)

93-65 (0-4)

83-76 (2-1)

83-58 (13-8)

64-48 (17-33)

61-54 (28-19)

35-35 (40-52)

================

476-408 (112-138)

 

 

MVP

[atomic]

10 hours ago, Frobby said:

57-72 (12-21)

93-65 (0-4)

83-76 (2-1)

83-58 (13-8)

64-48 (17-33)

61-54 (28-19)

35-35 (40-52)

================

476-408 (112-138)

 

 

Thanks for finding this information.  Interestingly even when he was hitting poorly he still had a big effect on having the team win.   We need another slick fielding shortstop.   In the glory days we had Belanger.