Jerry Crasnick ESPN Article on the Orioles

[clapdiddy]

After reading Tony's article, this article doesn't surprise me in the least.

[Moose Milligan]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It's the last name, just like some folks think Mike Yastrzemski is a prospect.

You're probably right.  I mean, if Billy Ripken is getting some consideration, Jeff Reboulet should, too.  All scrappy middle infielders in recent history should.

[ISU94]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

How's that working out for the Marlins?

So because one team got a not so great group that means we should just sit tight with the Angelos crew?

Also, they now have a fairly solid farm system with some interesting pieces for the future after they tore down a group that clearly wasn't taking them anywhere. I've heard in baseball circles we're pretty much considered the worst run team in baseball, even behind that Marlins crew you speak of. I don't think it can get any worse...

If the Angelos brothers are going to make changes (which the article does mention that about IFA and co., than great. But if not, I'd take anyone else over the pathetic excuse we have now that meddles in operations and screws the franchise.

[Tx Oriole]

29 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don't get how Billy Ripken fits in at all.  

He doesn't. Dempsey would be the worst though. 

[atomic]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

How's that working out for the Marlins?

You are going to judge an ownership group after a few months? They have 14 more wins than us.   They have had 8 straight losing seasons it might take a couple of years to right that ship. 

[Tx Oriole]

26 minutes ago, allquixotic said:

I didn't finish reading the article, but aside from some outlandish recommendations for manager, I don't think it really says anything new. We in the community have known all of this since April, at least, if not even the offseason.

One thing I don't think this club even fathoms or realizes in any way is that fans (informed by media and insiders, but even individual fans in isolation) tend to know more about this ballclub than the management knows. We have had some very sound suggestions and have identified very real problems, while they continue to march ahead silently, "steady as she goes", not reacting to (or not listening to) information they receive identifying major issues with their strategy.

In the information age, they need to either start listening to their fans, or at the very least, reacting to stimuli from their environment. They seem completely inert to any and all external voices, factors, or even the inevitable progression of time. It's like there's nothing that can occur in their environment that causes them to make a change that actually has any impact whatsoever.

Or maybe they are constantly, intensively analyzing everything behind the scenes, to the point that they're stuck in over-analysis paralysis. Second-guessing themselves, 5000th-guessing themselves, to the point where the window they had to do something impactful is long expired. An example is the failure to trade Manny. He should've been gone before the calendar said May, and here it is after the 4th of July. I'm pretty sure literally any of the other 29 management/ownership teams in MLB would've traded him much earlier and therefore gotten a much better package for him. Whatever we get now is going to reflect the value of getting a top-end player... for 3 months. Which isn't a lot, doesn't matter if that player is Mike Trout, Manny Machado or Babe Ruth.

That's what bothers me most about the O's. Their reaction times to anything seem to come with about a 6 month lag. It didn't use to be this way, even with the current regime. Remember when we DFA'ed Arrieta mid-season? Remember when we signed Andrew Miller to help us get into and through the playoffs? We used to pull the trigger when the O's fanbase had been practically rioting in the streets for the trigger to be pulled for a couple weeks at most.

Now we're looking at 3+ months of yelling and screaming, not just by O's fans, but by every single pundit and baseball analyst out there, telling them exactly what to do. And what are they actually doing? What is being done to improve their situation?

Exactly nothing. And with each passing day, the value of our free agent trade chips melts away. It's like they're asleep at the wheel. At this point I really do wonder if DD and Buck are intentionally trying to destroy this team out of malice.

Of course not. They are not in charge. It's Angelos and Brady. 

[amdcpus]

13 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

How's that working out for the Marlins?

I agree with most of what you say, but I just don't understand this. They've only had a few months and it is one example, you refuse to look at the many other ownership changes that have been successful. Definition of a strawman argument. Any ownership change would be greatly welcomed for the Orioles. 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, atomic said:

You are going to judge an ownership group after a few months? They have 14 more wins than us.   They have had 8 straight losing seasons it might take a couple of years to right that ship. 

Sure I'll judge them after a few months.  They slashed payroll to help pay off the debt the incurred in buying the team.  They let "Mr Marlin" go.  They reportedly reneged on a memorial for Jose Fernandez.

Sure, I'll judge.

The Marlins are not in rebuild mode because they didn't have a tenable future with their current roster, they are in rebuild mode because ownership is looting.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, amdcpus said:

I agree with most of what you say, but I just don't understand this. They've only had a few months and it is one example, you refuse to look at the many other ownership changes that have been successful. Definition of a strawman argument. Any ownership change would be greatly welcomed for the Orioles. 

My point is it can get worse.

We might not like Angelos but he is not as bad an owner as it is possbile to be saddled with.

( All of this does not mean that I think Angelos is anything but a poor owner)

[Tx Oriole]

9 minutes ago, ISU94 said:

So because one team got a not so great group that means we should just sit tight with the Angelos crew?

Also, they now have a fairly solid farm system with some interesting pieces for the future after they tore down a group that clearly wasn't taking them anywhere. I've heard in baseball circles we're pretty much considered the worst run team in baseball, even behind that Marlins crew you speak of. I don't think it can get any worse...

If the Angelos brothers are going to make changes (which the article does mention that about IFA and co., than great. But if not, I'd take anyone else over the pathetic excuse we have now that meddles in operations and screws the franchise.

And how are we as fans going to change ownership? Unless you have several billion dollars lying around. 

[amdcpus]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sure I'll judge them after a few months.  They slashed payroll to help pay off the debt the incurred in buying the team.  They let "Mr Marlin" go.  They reportedly reneged on a memorial for Jose Fernandez.

Sure, I'll judge.

The Marlins are not in rebuild mode because they didn't have a tenable future with their current roster, they are in rebuild mode because ownership is looting.

"Mr. Marlin" is a self absorbed snob who refused to pay full price for tickets and repeatedly lambasted the ownership group. I encourage you to read this article on him: https://www.sbnation.com/2017/7/13/15962152/marlins-man-laurence-leavy-all-star-game-miami-who-is-he-really

 

Jose Fernandez broke the rules of his contract and was using illicit drugs at the time of his death, I agree with their decision not to memorialize him.

 

They slashed payroll because their was no need to pay that much for an obviously rebuilding team.

[atomic]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sure I'll judge them after a few months.  They slashed payroll to help pay off the debt the incurred in buying the team.  They let "Mr Marlin" go.  They reportedly reneged on a memorial for Jose Fernandez.

 Sure, I'll judge.

The Marlins are not in rebuild mode because they didn't have a tenable future with their current roster, they are in rebuild mode because ownership is looting.

Stanton had a terrible contract.  They had to let him go.  If the contract wasn't so bad they would have gotten more for him

They still have an 86 million dollar payroll. It doesn't compare to the Astros payrolls.  I don't know if ownership will be terrible or not but to judge them on a few months is ridiculous.  

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, amdcpus said:

"Mr. Marlin" is a self absorbed snob who refused to pay full price for tickets and repeatedly lambasted the ownership group. I encourage you to read this article on him: https://www.sbnation.com/2017/7/13/15962152/marlins-man-laurence-leavy-all-star-game-miami-who-is-he-really

 

Jose Fernandez broke the rules of his contract and was using illicit drugs at the time of his death, I agree with their decision not to memorialize him.

 

They slashed payroll because their was no need to pay that much for an obviously rebuilding team.

I was talking about Conine.

I'd be fine with not memorializing him, aside from the fact that they, you know, promised the family that they would. 

They didn't need to rebuild.  They had a path to competitiveness.  They slashed payroll because they took on too much debt when buying the team.   This rebuild is all about lowering payroll.

[Tx Oriole]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

My point is it can get worse.

We might not like Angelos but he is not as bad an owner as it is possbile to be saddled with.

( All of this does not mean that I think Angelos is anything but a poor owner)

Yes it could. Didn't Angelos keep the team from moving from Baltimore? He is a horrible owner but keeping the team in Baltimore is a blessing. I just hope his sons are better at Ownership. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, atomic said:

Stanton had a terrible contract.  They had to let him go.  If the contract wasn't so bad they would have gotten more for him

They still have an 86 million dollar payroll. It doesn't compare to the Astros payrolls.  I don't know if ownership will be terrible or not but to judge them on a few months is ridiculous.  

If they could have dumped Chen's contract they would have.

Christian Yelich is making 7M this year.  Is that a terrible contract?  Did they have to let him go?