So, how would you characterize the return on the Manny trade?

[Redskins Rick]

29 minutes ago, Todd-O said:

Is there a site that lists how many scouts each team has?  Three means nothing unless there is reference.

Considering how the Orioles operate, I suspect there are many teams with a larger staff of scouts.

[Redskins Rick]

52 minutes ago, Roy Firestone said:

WE HAVE 3 PRO SCOUTS. The rest aren't full time major league assessors.. unless you count 82 year old Lee Thomas.Or former Agent Jerry Kapstein.

Dont forget they added Brooks to the staff.

[theocean]

52 minutes ago, Roy Firestone said:

WE HAVE 3 PRO SCOUTS. The rest aren't full time major league assessors.. unless you count 82 year old Lee Thomas.Or former Agent Jerry Kapstein.

It'd be really informative and helpful if anyone has insight into how the scouting side of baseball works for most organizations. I know nothing about it and I'm very interested.

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, theocean said:

It'd be really informative and helpful if anyone has insight into how the scouting side of baseball works for most organizations. I know nothing about it and I'm very interested.

This might help

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/scouting-explained-the-20-80-scouting-scale/

[MurphDogg]

 

4 hours ago, MurphDogg said:

Not sure that they would have gotten much more this offseason with the 2017 he had. 

 

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

I am not sure we would have gotten more this offseason.   At least, not substantially more.    But only the Orioles know for sure.   

Keith Law disagrees with Frobby and I. I asked in his chat what his thoughts were: 

 

Greg

1:34

How much more value do you think the Orioles would have gotten for Manny if they had traded him this offseason, being that he was coming off a sub-par season? After 2016 was clearly the time to trade him and Britton but would have been tough for fans to swallow coming off the Wild Card.

 

Keith Law

1:37

The subpar season would have had no effect. Nobody I know thought he was somehow worse, especially since he raked in the second half as he had before.

[Frobby]

33 minutes ago, TGO said:

There you go, pro scouts. I think that's an important clarification. We of course have many more amateur scouts. Most teams have fewer pro scouts than amateur scouts. But 3 pro scouts is still a very low number. I recall we moved some of our pro scouts to the amateur side a few years ago (and some of them may have left after that).

Yes, that does clarify things.   I recall that Duquette started a move a few years ago to rely more heavily on video than live pro scouting.   Whether that means there are only 3 pro scouts, I don’t know, but that’s plausible.  

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

 

 

Keith Law disagrees with Frobby and I. I asked in his chat what his thoughts were: 

 

Greg

1:34

How much more value do you think the Orioles would have gotten for Manny if they had traded him this offseason, being that he was coming off a sub-par season? After 2016 was clearly the time to trade him and Britton but would have been tough for fans to swallow coming off the Wild Card.

 

Keith Law

1:37

The subpar season would have had no effect. Nobody I know thought he was somehow worse, especially since he raked in the second half as he had before.

I wasn’t thinking so much about the subpar season.    I just think the trade deadline creates more of an auction atmosphere than offseason trades do.    The Dodgers had no reason to pursue Manny this offseason, and I don’t remember hearing much about the Phillies or Brewers, either.    Injuries and the immediacy of a pennant race tend to focus the mind.    And I do think having the Dodgers in the mix helped a lot.    

[droper]

I think if there was any confidence in the amateur scouting keeping Manny and taking the pick would have been my preference.  Once they decided to open the season with him on the roster I'd have made sure to get a guy that looks like a potential star instead of a possible solid role player.  That said, I'd deal AJ, Britton and Brach for whatever I could get because there's no way they are offered  a  contract for next year.

 

[MurphDogg]

Just now, Frobby said:

I wasn’t thinking so much about the subpar season.    I just think the trade deadline creates more of an auction atmosphere than offseason trades do.    The Dodgers had no reason to pursue Manny this offseason, and I don’t remember hearing much about the Phillies or Brewers, either.    Injuries and the immediacy of a pennant race tend to focus the mind.    And I do think having the Dodgers in the mix helped a lot.    

Sure, I agree that is a factor. From a purely rational perspective, Manny SHOULD have had more value this past offseason, but being in the heat of the pennant race, especially in a surprisingly competitive NL West helped the return.

[MurphDogg]

2 minutes ago, droper said:

I think if there was any confidence in the amateur scouting keeping Manny and taking the pick would have been my preference.  Once they decided to open the season with him on the roster I'd have made sure to get a guy that looks like a potential star instead of a possible solid role player.  That said, I'd deal AJ, Britton and Brach for whatever I could get because there's no way they are offered  a  contract for next year.

 

You think a comp pick is more likely to be a potential star over the FIVE guys the Orioles acquired? Gotta disagree.

[droper]

Maybe I'm wrong, I just can't see these 5 guys to be anything to be excited about and that feels wrong when you get rid of Manny.

[Todd-O]

1 minute ago, droper said:

Maybe I'm wrong, I just can't see these 5 guys to be anything to be excited about and that feels wrong when you get rid of Manny.

You've got five names, some numbers, what league they're in... and possibly you saw Diaz play some in the futures game.  

Then you have the national press weighing in, and those guys have about as much information as us.  PLUS, they have to write some kind of opinion and are frequently way off the mark (despite sounding good in the heat of the moment).

So what are you basing any kind of opinion on?  Right now, all the info is extremely limited.

 

 I see absolutely no reason why one or two of these guys might not become really solid contributors at the ML level.  And we're basically get 4 prospects + a utility for 2.5 months of a rental.

[Hallas]

6 hours ago, weams said:

Manny was never signing. After his knees healed. 

So you don't buy Manny's comments that the Orioles never called in the offseason?  That would have been Lozano passing the info on to Manny so I could see that happening.  Lozano isn't exactly the most upstanding human being out there.

[Redskins Rick]

58 minutes ago, Todd-O said:

You've got five names, some numbers, what league they're in... and possibly you saw Diaz play some in the futures game.  

Then you have the national press weighing in, and those guys have about as much information as us.  PLUS, they have to write some kind of opinion and are frequently way off the mark (despite sounding good in the heat of the moment).

So what are you basing any kind of opinion on?  Right now, all the info is extremely limited.

 

 I see absolutely no reason why one or two of these guys might not become really solid contributors at the ML level.  And we're basically get 4 prospects + a utility for 2.5 months of a rental.

Nobody can correctly predict the future outcome, the sure numbers help that somebody will work well for the Orioles.

But, a sure-fire HOF? Damn, those dont grow on trees.

I think the only way this blows up for the Dodgers, if Manny turns into a bust, like Bedard did.

[weams]

Just now, Hallas said:

So you don't buy Manny's comments that the Orioles never called in the offseason?  That would have been Lozano passing the info on to Manny so I could see that happening.  Lozano isn't exactly the most upstanding human being out there.

I believe that Manny was never ever signing other than when it appeared that his career was in jeopardy. That.