Are You Happy

[Satyr3206]

9 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

I'm not happy that the Orioles are losing.

I am happy that the team has chosen a direction and appear to be moving in that direction in a decisive and competent manner.

And you have more players to evaluate and fit into the Prospects list.

[Frobby]

I think happy or unhappy are overly simple adjectives for me.    I’m a swirl of mixed emotions.    I’m unhappy that the team got itself in the position where it had to do this.    I’m happy that, faced with that situation, they chose a direction and went at it decisively.    I’m unhappy to say goodbye to players I’d been following for years.    I’m somewhat excited about some of the players we acquired, but nervous that there’s nobody there who appears likely to be as good as some of the guys we’ll be replacing.    I’m happy ownership didn’t get in the way of the front office.    I’m happy the team is dramatically revising its stance on international spending.    I’m super unhappy to think of the crappy baseball I’m going to be watching the next 2-3 years at least.     And I’m nervous about how long it will be before we have another winning team and whether it will actually have a higher ceiling than the 2012-16 teams.   

[Catch 8]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think happy or unhappy are overly simple adjectives for me.    I’m a swirl of mixed emotions.    I’m unhappy that the team got itself in the position where it had to do this.    I’m happy that, faced with that situation, they chose a direction and went at it decisively.    I’m unhappy to say goodbye to players I’d been following for years.    I’m somewhat excited about some of the players we acquired, but nervous that there’s nobody there who appears likely to be as good as some of the guys we’ll be replacing.    I’m happy ownership didn’t get in the way of the front office.    I’m happy the team is dramatically revising its stance on international spending.    I’m super unhappy to think of the crappy baseball I’m going to be watching the next 2-3 years at least.     And I’m nervous about how long it will be before we have another winning team and whether it will actually have a higher ceiling than the 2012-16 teams.   

Well said.  Well well well said.  My favorite is in bold.

[Luke-OH]

16 minutes ago, Thato'sfan said:

Also, the Gausman deal, prospect wise is underwhelming. But, if you take the big picture into account it becomes a good trade. We dump a lot of salary while adding a potential back end starter, controllable reliever with upside, high floor catcher with potential to become an everyday starter, and a guy who might have the absolute highest ceiling in the entire system. The last being Encarnacion, a third baseman who has a plus arm, solid defense, plus raw power, and a quick bat. He has been better than Mountcastle was at low A and while rawer and a year older, the ceiling is as high as anybody. To get someone with a ceiling as high as Carmona/Encarnacion we had to trade for lower minors guys. I believe @Luke-OH mentioned how teams know a prospect's potential to succeed better than ever, and therefore higher level guys are more difficult to acquire.

Yeah, if you look at the prospects dealt at the deadline, how many top dudes moved? Not many, Mejia went for maybe the most consistently good and controllable relief arm + another piece. Mejia's stock is on the downswing and his future position is in question. Meadows is maybe the top guy moved, but he's had durability issues and the injuries at this point have sapped his fielding tools. Then there is Diaz and Glasnow who isn't a prospect anymore, that's it. 

Teams have so much more confidence in there near majors top guys now because of all the data (Trackman) they have on the players, so it's that much harder to get players because teams have a higher confidence level in players becoming quality big leaguers.

Adam Pohl (Bowie's PBP guy) made a good point (I think after we were done recording) that with steroids out of the game, players are falling off the aging cliff much earlier. Far fewer players are holding success into their 30s and that has increased the value of young players by decreasing the amount of quality players on the free agent market.

[hoosiers]

Generally, I am happy.  The rebuild has begun.  We are shedding salary, adding prospects and preparing to compete for international prospects.  

We have put ourselves on the right path towards our next competitive team.

It would have been nice to be here sooner, but we are here now.  

The next few years will be abysmal, but let's get on with it.

[InsideCoroner]

It’s been such a busy, crazy werk that it’s hard to fully wrap my head around. Duquette was saying all the right things recently, but the team had a (well-deserved) reputation of being slow and difficult so it was tough to tell if he was just trying to seduce us with his boardroom eyes. But then it all went down so quickly that we’re still sorting through the rubble.

It’s always hard when you lose some of your favorite players, especially a number of them all at once. But this team overspent and it backfired badly, we had a disastrous minor league system, and there was no hope of contending for the next few years. Or even beyond that, if nothing drastic had changed. So they tore it down (and might not be done yet), we get a slew of young players, and perhaps more importantly, it looks like the shackles might be off our FO guys. I’m excited for the future. And while there won’t be anything worthwhile happening on the field this year, at least the NL postseason race just got a lot more interesting to watch.

[glenn__davis]

Add me to the list of those generally unimpressed.  I certainly don't look at our organization as a whole now and see the core of our next contending team, which is disheartening.  If they actually spend this international bonus money on high end talent, which I'm skeptical of, my tune my change a bit.  I don't want to put all of our eggs in the Victor Victor Mesa basket though.

[wildbillhiccup]

8 hours ago, Catch 8 said:

Your word is what I am going on right now.  I was just using your post to illustrate a point on prospective evaluation--not trying to pick on you

You shouldn't go by what he's saying. You should look at the numbers and judge for yourself. I'm calling bupkis on anyone trying to defend Villar and who paints him as solid defensively and a bounce back candidate. He's had one solid season and he's overall value that season was inflated because of his stolen bases. That season was the outlier. Aside from that season, there's a reason why he hasn't been an everyday player. It's because he's not very good. 

I think trading Gausman and Schoop was the right move to make, but the trades seemed forced. The team would have been better getting back quality versus quantity and letting the younger players grow and play at the MLB season next season. And if that type of trade wasn't available you wait to trade them during the off season.  I would much rather watch Hiura (2B) and one of the Braves young pitchers (SP) struggle and grow in the Orioles lineup next season then someone like Villar who has no long term place on this team. And if you think our defense is bad this season wait until you watch the double play combo of Beckham and Villar in action. 

[wildbillhiccup]

Does anyone else think Dan might have felt rushed to trade Gausman and Schoop because he's not sure if he's coming back next season? Regardless of where you stand on the trades it's hard to argue that they didn't seem forced. I just don't get the sense of urgency. Both players could have been traded in the off season. I definitely think there would have been more interest in both. Especially Schoop. Aside from Lemahieu the free agent 2B class is terrible this year. Both the Rockies and the Brewers would have still been in the market for a 2B after the season ended, as well as several other teams. 

[Catch 8]

3 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

You shouldn't go by what he's saying. You should look at the numbers and judge for yourself. I'm calling bupkis on anyone trying to defend Villar and who paints him as solid defensively and a bounce back candidate. He's had one solid season and he's overall value that season was inflated because of his stolen bases. That season was the outlier. Aside from that season, there's a reason why he hasn't been an everyday player. It's because he's not very good. 

I think trading Gausman and Schoop was the right move to make, but the trades seemed forced. The team would have been better getting back quality versus quantity and letting the younger players grow and play at the MLB season next season. And if that type of trade wasn't available you wait to trade them during the off season.  I would much rather watch Hiura (2B) and one of the Braves young pitchers (SP) struggle and grow in the Orioles lineup next season then someone like Villar who has no long term place on this team. And if you think our defense is bad this season wait until you watch the double play combo of Beckham and Villar in action. 

Obviously I will form my own conclusion.  It was more "I'll take you for your word until I have time to catch up."  A politeness thing sort-of.

Yes, the trades seemed forced, but I still haven't investigated much yet.

[DJHJR86]

If we land Mesa I'll be very happy.

The Gausman love was always a head scratcher to me.  Never lived up to the hype.  O'Day was a salary dump, which was a great thing.  The Schoop trade shocked me, but if they realistically thought there was no chance in resigning him, now was the best time to unload him.  

[LookinUp]

I’m more curious and confused than unhappy.

Yesterday’s moves seem so heavily about money that it scares me. I’m with everyone in agreeing that is we go big on the international side, I’ll feel better. On the other hand, I don’t have faith that’s the case. These moves seem rushed. I get the feeling that Dan’s marching orders might be to strip it down as a first priority, with rebuilding as second.

There are two reasons that could be. One is that MASN and ticket revenues are so low that they’re facing serious financial constraints again. If that’s true, I worry about our use of the international slots (VVM less likely) and even our use of the draft slot pool next year.

The other reason to strip it down is to sell. This could all be a precursor to that. If so, again, it could temper our ability to spend the money we just saved on prospects in the short term.

So to me, the two moves raised serious questions.

[ISU94]

53 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

You shouldn't go by what he's saying. You should look at the numbers and judge for yourself. I'm calling bupkis on anyone trying to defend Villar and who paints him as solid defensively and a bounce back candidate. He's had one solid season and he's overall value that season was inflated because of his stolen bases. That season was the outlier. Aside from that season, there's a reason why he hasn't been an everyday player. It's because he's not very good. 

I think trading Gausman and Schoop was the right move to make, but the trades seemed forced. The team would have been better getting back quality versus quantity and letting the younger players grow and play at the MLB season next season. And if that type of trade wasn't available you wait to trade them during the off season.  I would much rather watch Hiura (2B) and one of the Braves young pitchers (SP) struggle and grow in the Orioles lineup next season then someone like Villar who has no long term place on this team. And if you think our defense is bad this season wait until you watch the double play combo of Beckham and Villar in action. 

Villar was a toss in. He wasn't the core part of the deal. The core part of the deal was a good arm prospect in Ortiz and a huge upside guy in Carmona. Villar is a guy who has shown upside in the past (whether you agree or not) and could turn into a trade chip or maybe solid piece down the line for us. He had no spot on a team vying for a WS that wanted immediate upgrades.

 

[Just Regular]

ZIPS creator/Orioles fan Dan Szymborski is.  From his Trade Deadline roundup:

This may be the happiest I’ve been about the Baltimore Orioles for some time. I said last month that trading the pending free agents is the bare minimum to start a rebuild and, if the team were serious, they needed to explore trades for players who weren’t on the verge of free agency, players like Dylan Bundy, Kevin Gausman, and Jonathan Schoop. Not only were two of them dealt, but the O’s also suddenly exhibited an interest in international money, one of my huge sticking points with the franchise in the past. For the time being, I have to take their intentions seriously until proven otherwise. I’ve been a vocal critic of the O’s, but I try to give everyone an opportunity to prove me wrong. I used to think Brian Sabean was one of the worst GMs in baseball, around the time they quickly signed Michael Tucker before midnight to make sure they lost a draft pick (seriously, I’m not making this up), but he got a lot better after that.

 

[O's are Legends]

Sports teams can be like family.. you disapprove of their actions but at the end of the day you still support them etc

I don't like either trade and I'm not a fan of adding O'Day in the trade to offload salary which in turn gives you a lesser return. Schoop was injured to start the season but had a monster July. I have a hard time believing the O's couldn't do better during the off-season for Schoop especially if he had a monster 2nd half. After which seemed like two really solid trades (Machado, Britton) I was expecting some good hauls for Schoop and Gausman but on the surface that doesn't seem to be the case. As others have mentioned, they didn't add one top 100 player.

This may sound harsh but it almost seemed like making a trade just to make a trade and if you're rebuilding and hold the chips, I believe you have to do better.

Gausman trade - I give it a 45 out of 100

Schoop trade - 25 out of a 100