Managers available

[Redskins Rick]

17 minutes ago, foxfield said:

2 Things.  First welcome aboard.  Second, I love Buck and what he was to the good teams and even more what he was when he got here.  But how, has Buck earned the right to make that call?  He is under .500 for his tenure here.  Last year the Yankees and the Redsox went to the playoffs and they BOTH fired their managers.  The Orioles went 4-19 to crater last year and have lost 99 games get back to the same point on the calendar.  There is really no circumstance where you lose 118 games in 162, and think you dont make a change.

Add to that Buck has had more input than most managers as to roster....and I just dont see him back.  And I don't see a GM saying yes to the job if he can't pick his own manager.  But until we see how things are structured going forward I really just don't know.  

Again, welcome.  Hope you enjoy.

 

Edit to add:  Bordy?  

Pretty sure most managers have input into their rosters, not sure, how you base it that Buck has more than more.

Buck is not under .500 for his tenue here:

Buck Showalter

2010–present

622

559

.527

[LA2]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

The deciding factor on Buck may be how much he wants to be paid.  3.5m to lose 100 games seems pretty steep.   Bordick? Really?

They traded Brach for a quarter million of international signing money and the saving on his salary. By the same reasoning, dumping Buck to save 2-2.5 million (a new manager could definitely be hired for between .5 and 1 million) must be something the Angelos' are at least seriously contemplating.

Personally, I think the O's risk doing worse than Buck when rebuilding the team. It's the type of project he's repeatedly proven he's good at (Y's, D-backs, Rangers, O's--that's quite a record). But does he deserve another shot at going all the way once he's helped to make a contending team? After all his post-season fiascos, I'm not sure that he does. For whatever reason, it's his karma and he can cry if he wants to. I don't envision a fairy-tale ending to his managerial career.

[TonySoprano]

16 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Pretty sure most managers have input into their rosters, not sure, how you base it that Buck has more than more.

Buck is not under .500 for his tenue here:

Buck Showalter

2010–present

622

559

.527

663-668

https://www.baseball-reference.com/managers/showabu99.shtml

[foxfield]

5 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Pretty sure most managers have input into their rosters, not sure, how you base it that Buck has more than more.

Buck is not under .500 for his tenue here:

Buck Showalter

2010–present

622

559

.527

I think we are looking at different data.  Baseball reference has Buck below .500

https://www.baseball-reference.com/managers/showabu99.shtml

And there are certainly rumors of Bucks access to ownership, but I'll start with the fact that he does not report to the GM.  But again, I love Buck, and LA2 makes the perfectly valid point above that rebuild is what he is good at.  But I don't see it here and I hope he moves on.  But I am pretty firmly in the camp that Ownership is the primary issue so... 

[Redskins Rick]

5 minutes ago, foxfield said:

I think we are looking at different data.  Baseball reference has Buck below .500

https://www.baseball-reference.com/managers/showabu99.shtml

And there are certainly rumors of Bucks access to ownership, but I'll start with the fact that he does not report to the GM.  But again, I love Buck, and LA2 makes the perfectly valid point above that rebuild is what he is good at.  But I don't see it here and I hope he moves on.  But I am pretty firmly in the camp that Ownership is the primary issue so... 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Baltimore_Orioles_managers

I know it says present, but I suspect it hasnt added in, this years results.

I think its safe that when ownership took a hands off, this team won, and when it meddles, it doesn't.

Hopefully, the sons have learned from watching this.

[foxfield]

8 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Baltimore_Orioles_managers

I know it says present, but I suspect it hasnt added in, this years results.

I think its safe that when ownership took a hands off, this team won, and when it meddles, it doesn't.

Hopefully, the sons have learned from watching this.

Yea, we are in agreement there for sure.  I have learned though that things can always be worse.  It is very hard being a sports fan for Peter Angelos' O's and Daniel Snyder's Redskins. Sometimes it's harder than others.  

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, foxfield said:

Yea, we are in agreement there for sure.  I have learned though that things can always be worse.  It is very hard being a sports fan for Peter Angelos' O's and Daniel Snyder's Redskins. Sometimes it's harder than others.  

It is, and Danny made terrible mistakes, but his difference, was his zealous for the team, and the love of the history of the Redskins. Peter has none of that.

I think it you look back over the last few years, there is 90% less Danny Snyder and more Bruce Allen, GM of the Redskins as the face of the Redskins. Joe Gibbs said, he told that to Danny, that he learned from Jack Kent Cooke, you hire good people and trust them, and try to stay out of their way. He said he applied that to his NASCAR racing team too.

[ShaneDawg85]

55 minutes ago, foxfield said:

I think we are looking at different data.  Baseball reference has Buck below .500

https://www.baseball-reference.com/managers/showabu99.shtml

And there are certainly rumors of Bucks access to ownership, but I'll start with the fact that he does not report to the GM.  But again, I love Buck, and LA2 makes the perfectly valid point above that rebuild is what he is good at.  But I don't see it here and I hope he moves on.  But I am pretty firmly in the camp that Ownership is the primary issue so... 

I have to question this statement, because in every previous instance Buck has been there at the beginning.  The teams were constructed and built in his image to a large extent.  Never has he been in a situation where he's having to start over because the team that he helped construct failed and in such a spectacular way.  That alone lends strong credence to the argument he should go.

[spiritof66]

 

2 hours ago, Curse of the Bamdino said:

Let it be known that I've no issue with Buck returning - he's certainly earned every right to make that call - but failing that, I'd be very interested in learning Mike Bordick's vision for this franchise. 

I don't think Buck has earned anything other than his salary. And you could argue about whether he's been overpaid, but who cares? I guess he's earned the right to be treated with some dignity and courtesy, but he knew when he signed on with Peter Angelos he might not get that.

For me, whether to offer a new contract to Buck has little or nothing to do with this year's disaster or whose fault it is, with Buck's past success, or with his sometimes bizarre use of his bullpen. For a few years, the Orioles will be trying to build a successful team almost exclusively with young, low-paid players with limited ML experience. The likelihood of success in that venture will be improved by hiring a manager who has some patience and doesn't rush to judgment about prospects, is skilled at evaluating and deploying guys with limited track records, can maintain a good working relationship with Duquette or his successor, has good rapport (and, again, patience) with young guys from a variety of countries and backgrounds and will earn their respect, works to improve his understanding and is willing to be imaginative and collaborative with others in the organization about what wins ball games (and that includes the very valuable insights provided by advanced statistics, and does not include old "wisdom" about eye color, beards and the like), is a talented and respected teacher, will capably head up a staff of skillful coaches and instructors, will keep plugging away with maximum effort even while the team performs dismally, and will likely want to stay for another contract or extension if progress is made.

I'm sure I missed a few things, but I think those are among the key attributes the Orioles should be looking for. The question, the only question, is this: who is the best available guy with that package of qualities, however you define them? 

I think that might have been Buck 10 or 20 years ago. I don't think it's Buck now. He seems too loyal to veterans and past performance, too resistant to new ideas and insights, too likely to check out rather than try to teach when players make mistakes and the Orioles lose again, too dismissive of useful analysis he doesn't understand (or try to understand). He seems, understandably, beaten down by a year of presiding over a surprisingly terrible team with lots of bad players that has traded away much of its productivity. If he were retained, I could see him quitting in June or July. 

I could be wrong in my assessment of Buck. I see what he does in games (but don't watch nearly as much as I used to), read a lot about what he says but don't see or hear much of him on mlb.tv. But I think it would be a mistake to have a lot of confidence that I'm wrong about him and to put a new team -- same uniforms, but different players -- in his hands for a few more years. 

 

[Going Underground]

2 hours ago, semicolt said:

Buck should stay! If the players below would of performed the way they were supposed to, the O's would of been at least a .500 team. 

Davis, Mancini, Beckham, Bundy, Cobb ( 1st half), Givens , Brach and Schrop when they were here ,plus throw in Britton and Bleier being hurt didn't help.

 

 

But the Orioles took a chance and did not have an adequate backup middle infielder. Then injuries exposed that flawed thinking.Having had five DH's was also a problem that showed in our poor defense.Signing a guy for the upgrade in right field who basically did not want to play baseball last year and became apparent this year as well.Signing Cobb late and him refusing to get some innings in the minors hurt as well.Not my fault he didn't want to build some innings up in the minors and ended up hurting the team.Beckham is not that good.Had a hot streak when he came over but has been below average since Septembet 1st of last year.Having him play third did not help matters.

[Finisher]

The risk of bringing back Buck and him ruining/not helping all these young pitchers about to hit the bigs in the next few years is simply too high.

Thome, Surhoff .. could probably come up with a dozen ex players who profile as solid managers. Main thing would be hiring a pitching coach with a recent track record of helping guys - like a Ray Searage.

[wildcard]

12 minutes ago, Finisher said:

The risk of bringing back Buck and him ruining/not helping all these young pitchers about to hit the bigs in the next few years is simply too high.

Thome, Surhoff .. could probably come up with a dozen ex players who profile as solid managers. Main thing would be hiring a pitching coach with a recent track record of helping guys - like a Ray Searage.

I would put Mike Griffin on that PC list.

[JR Oriole]

10 hours ago, Papeete said:

Until the Orioles clean house from top to bottom, they will never win anything, any time soon.

How come the top Pitching Prospects (Bundy, Harvey, others) are always injured within their first two years in the organization. Who is responsible for conditioning!

At the top, how come the coaches have a problem identifying the causes of a player's slump, or don't have any solutions for them. Why are they still coaching!

They talk about growing the arms . . . when was the last time the Orioles grew the arms (plural)! They are marketing a bunch of BS!

What team has ever won a championship with a one-dimensional team (just hit HRs). What a Great Strategic Plan!

When did pitching 5-6 innings become a quality start. I am from the Palmer, Cuellar, McNally, Dodson era.

Reality Check - Like I stated, until the Orioles clean house, don't expect the wildcard in the next 10 years.

These are funny points:

1. I agree.  Since last September, what are they, 48-120?  That is so bad it is laughable.  Nobody should be able to keep a job with that kind of a stretch.

2. I really do wonder about this.  I don't follow other teams' top pitching prospects but it is either really bad luck or we just don't have people who are as good as what other teams have.

3. The hitting and pitching coaches are lucky that they even get salaries.  Seriously....what value have they added?  Who has gotten better this year as a result of their advice and wisdom?

4. They grow the arms....for other teams to benefit from.  The key for other GMs is to get to the Orioles pitcher early enough in his career to overwrite the bad advice and psychological damage done by pitching for the Orioles. 

5. None.  But the Giants won the 2014 World Series because of one player. 

6. Different eras, but I agree in principle.

7. I hope it doesn't take 10 years.  I would love a Houston type rebuild.  Interesting with Houston though because they gave up on JD Martinez.  Obviously a massive mistake that a championship trophy forever absolves them of, but wow he has turned into a hell of a player.  Might win the Triple Crown this year. 

[El Gordo]

Here's an interesting list. I ;like Sandy Alomar and Keven Long. https://www.mlb.com/news/here-are-some-future-mlb-managerial-candidates/c-272950502

[spiritof66]

5 hours ago, Tx Oriole said:

Thome would be my choice, I have no idea why the pitchers suck then get with another team and then improve. 

Why do you think Thome would be good at managing a team, and specifically this team? Great player, seems like a very fine guy, but what makes him an outstanding prospect as manager?