Joseph for the second time calls out the team

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

That's a fair assessment. Buck can be a good manager, and in the right situation, I could see him having success again somewhere else if he gets that opportunity.

Saying all that, is run is over here. No one should be able to survive a season like this unless everyone knew ahead of time they were going to have a season like this.

Whoever the Orioles do hire next year will probably get signed to a two-year contract knowing that they are going to lose, and lose hard for two years. Whoever is hired as the GM should have the ability to hire his own manager and coaches, but I'd be fine with rewarding longtime minor league managers Gary Kendall and Ron Johnson with some major league time if they decide to go that "temporary route". 

 

And that they almost certainly won't be around when the team is good again.

[Frobby]

14 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

That's a fair assessment. Buck can be a good manager, and in the right situation, I could see him having success again somewhere else if he gets that opportunity.

Saying all that, is run is over here. No one should be able to survive a season like this unless everyone knew ahead of time they were going to have a season like this.

Whoever the Orioles do hire next year will probably get signed to a two-year contract knowing that they are going to lose, and lose hard for two years. Whoever is hired as the GM should have the ability to hire his own manager and coaches, but I'd be fine with rewarding longtime minor league managers Gary Kendall and Ron Johnson with some major league time if they decide to go that "temporary route". 

 

I agree with all this.   I would have fired Buck in May or early June, but once he made it past the All Star Break there really wasn’t a point.    It will be interesting to see where they go.

[TGO]

Is this Caleb submitting his own resume for the manager job?

I'm asking the question because it popped into my head, but I don't that's what this is. He probably believes he is still a major league player. I think that's debatable, although for a team with a young pitching staff it does make some sense to have him around.

[TGO]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I agree with all this.   I would have fired Buck in May or early June, but once he made it past the All Star Break there really wasn’t a point.    It will be interesting to see where they go.

I almost think getting fired in July would have been less embarrassing for Buck than what has happened since.

[JR Oriole]

8 minutes ago, TGO said:

I almost think getting fired in July would have been less embarrassing for Buck than what has happened since.

I am not sure that getting fired is even embarrassing, given that it happens to managers all the time.  He would have been in the ever-cushy role of ESPN baseball analyst by Aug. 1.  What doesn't happen all the time is a record this terrible.  So I agree, this is WAY worse. 

[Il BuonO]

38 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

OK now I am lost.

I didn't compare Jones' quality of play in Center and Right.

What I said is he looks uninterested.

How can you "lead by example" in a positive manner when you don't look engaged in what you are doing?  I admit I have not watched a ton of Orioles' baseball since the switch but Jones kinda looks to me like he's playing out the string in the field.  Maybe I've just caught him at some bad times?

Maybe 

[Ruzious]

4 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:

All we have is low performing players... who else could speak out... and I think Caleb is pretty clearly saying that the manager and coaches should have been fired a long time ago.

I didn't get that from what he said, but you might be right.  

Again, all I said was - I don't think this message coming from Caleb is going to have much affect on his teammates, because he's not a very good player.  I don't think that's a particularly shocking or controversial comment, and I'm not sure why some folks seem to think it is.  

 

[SteveA]

2 hours ago, Cy Bundy said:

Do people’s voices get old? Good managers lose influence it seems, Clev got a very good manager who lost his influence in Boston. Buck was our manager through our best days, he made an immediate difference, Dan continued to bring in bums and we were forced to play guys like....Caleb Joseph. Our defense is something like -108 in runs saved, not long ago we set a record for least errors in mlb history, I believe. Dan gave Buck 7 DH’s who can’t hit and a bullpen that can’t pitch. 

I don't think your voice will be taken seriously when you give 450 to 500 at bats to a guy having perhaps the worst history by a guy at his position in modern baseball history.   Just because of the money he makes.

That alone destroys the notion that there is any accountability for performance and sets the tone for everything else that happens.   Add to the fact that basically no one but Adam had any pressure from someone in the minors performing well and being any kind of real threat to come up and take their job, and I think that there is no external pressure on any veteran on this team to do anything but "mail it in".   Guys that didn't "mail it in" (Cobb, Jones for example) and continued to work to improve and perform well, did it because of internal drive and pride, not because of the environment created by the GM & manger.   Because the message from the top once things started to go to $#!+ was that bad performance wasn't going to cost you a job.

Add to that the ridiculously poor design of this team from the start --  multiple players playing positions they shouldn't, no backup infielder, 3 rule 5 guys, top pitcher who signed late in spring training, counting on a player who basically retired last year.   You have all that, a poor start, no accountability from the top down, no ready-for-primetime players in the minors who could come up and take a job, AAAA/bench guys forced to start too many games.

Buck's performance this year was frustrating and odd.   Here is a guy who is known for attention to detail, for planning ahead.   He knows who he will have in the bullpen two days from now to go 4 innings if his starter is knocked out by a line drive in the 2nd inning.   Yet he starts a season with the best third baseman in baseball history at shortstop, a 3rd baseman who has never played the position, a guy with a bad hip in right field.   Some of that may have been forced on him by management, but it was still a mess.

This is a manager who I believe did a GREAT job in 2010-2016 in creating an environment where players had roles that they understood and were suited for, and he got the most out of them.   Even in 2017, at least until September, I think we played at or above our talent level, and it was just that the 3 pitchers we were paying a lot of money to simply weren't up to the task and no replacements were available that cost us.

But this year was the exact OPPOSITE.   Players were put in positions to fail.   No one was held accountable.   It took 3 months of hitting .155 before Chris Davis got more than a random day off here or there.   Suddenly, having a manager who had his bullpen usage for the next four days mapped out to a crossed t or dotted i meant nothing because the overall environment that HE was in charge of was a complete and total mess.

 

[MMussina35]

Maybe they would win more if they didn't have players like Joseph on the team?

[pastorfan]

9 hours ago, Frobby said:

Good message, but the messenger has a .572 OPS and has been worth 0.1 rWAR this season.    

True,  but facts are facts. At least someone is telling it like it is. Since this is the current environment (unless Caleb is lying or being misquoted) then you have change the manager. 

[weams]

 

[hoosiers]

I am fine with Buck staying.  This team lacks talent not good coaches.  That is just my opinion.  IMO, the lack of talent should have fingers pointed at DD.  I think DD has made plenty of poor moves, but I believe many poor moves were done at the direction of ownership.  I like the scouting and development guys in place and worry they would be let go in favor of a new GM's desire to get his guys into key positions.  I would prefer to have continuity and let DD build this back up his way - especially if we really are going to commit annual resources to the international market.

If Buck wants to stay through the next two big losing seasons, and would do so at a lower salary (not paying him as a top manager), I would be fine with him staying.

[TonySoprano]

2 hours ago, TGO said:

Is this Caleb submitting his own resume for the manager job?

Quote

Dan Connolly
I will say, as part of my “1 Question, 6 Os answers” feature I’ve asked a bunch of current Orioles which teammate throughout their careers would make the best manager. And Joseph and Matt Wieters were the runaway answers.

 

[atomic]

27 minutes ago, weams said:

 

I like that he is rockin a hairstyle that is meant for boys under 5

 

[Going Underground]

31 minutes ago, weams said:

 

And a great family man.Treated his wife and kids so well