Assume that Duquette stays...

[tntoriole]

I do not want Dan, Brady or Buck back.   I would have fired Dan after his dalliance with Toronto, but that is just me.  

If Dan stays, Brady and Buck need to go.   If I operate on the assumption that Dan is going to stay, then I would give him a 4 year deal and I would hold him accountable for EVERY single aspect of baseball operations.  If we are not competitive as an organization by year 4 and our system is not clearly in the top 10 of minor league systems....gone.    But then I would be a different owner than Angelos.    My preference is for an up and coming, young assistant GM from another team and to do a clean sweep of management that has been in place under this regime. 

What the Angelos brothers are going to do, nobody knows.  

[tntoriole]

3 hours ago, AnythingO's said:

Wildcard, I don't want to get into an argument but your post above about all the poor decisions since 2014 is beneath you. Roy has told us Buck "insisted" on extending both Davis and Trumbo and Buck had a direct line to PA. I will go to my grave believing Dan wanted no part of either but was directed to do so. Mike Rogers of Rogers Communications asked his NYY exec buddy for recommendation for Toronto's Exec Dir of baseball operations. Rogers approached Dan, Dan reported to PA, PA neutered him. You say it was a result of Dan's actions but all we can prove Dan did was report the overture to PA. Anything after 2014 was influenced by that. The incumbent Exec Dir in Toronto was under contract for another year at the time the overture was made. I agree that Jimenez and Gallardo were poor decisions made in a desperate attempt to extend the period of contention. Gausman is the straw that broke your back but it is pretty clear they are cutting payroll and rebuilding and Gausman was the price to be paid.

You do not know what Dan said to Peter or when or how.  None of us do.   You are spinning it so that Dan comes out clean as a rose in that mess.  It is just as likely that this was discussed informally for some time between the interested parties and then overtures made and that Angelos was the last person to find out about it...at which point he went predictably ballistic.    And, even if not,  what kind of idiot does not recognize that if Toronto comes to talk to me about jumping ship  and I work in a contract for Peter Angelos, that I had better not only publicly dismiss ANY interest in the position, but also tell Rogers right at the first discussion to go jump in a lake.   I would be happy to see reports or quotations where Dan said exactly what you claim and what PA said in response.

In my view, Dan completely destroyed his relationship with our volatile, dysfunctional owner by his actions with Toronto being correctly perceived by Angelos as self seeking and disloyal.  And I will never forgive that whole offseason Jerry Springer soap opera at a time when we were as close to a World Series as we will be maybe ever again, never.   

Dan may get this gig, but I hope he does not.   It has gotten old. 

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, 24fps said:

Brady Anderson was named special assistant to the EVP of baseball ops in 2012 and promoted to VP for baseball ops one year later in 2013.  That was long before Duquette's dalliance with Toronto.  Brady Anderson's position and lack of accountability is a clear sign that lack of trust within the organization is a fundamental principle not a special case.  So is PA's historical taste for cronyism.  When is comes to the Orioles, the existence of a "trusted GM" with the ability to talk someone like Peter Angelos out of something he's already decided to do is about as likely as the Easter Bunny singing the national anthem.

A GM does not talk an owner out of decision after he makes it.  He is involved in the decision before the decision made and helps guide the owner in the best direction for the organization.

[wildcard]

4 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

A $1.9 million net worth is not really that much and Duquette is not at retirement age. He certainly will need to work again unless he decides to downsize his house, lifestyle and ability provide for his family. We know he's not going into the media! lol

Dan has a 2nd  family and Amherst is not cheap.

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, El Gordo said:

So has every other GM to work for Angelos. Actually Dan is the most successful of his GM.s 

I agree with that but this many high profile bad decisions does not deserve an extension or a new contract.

[24fps]

39 minutes ago, wildcard said:

A GM does not talk an owner out of decision after he makes it.  He is involved in the decision before the decision made and helps guide the owner in the best direction for the organization.

I see no indication that Duquette has ever been in a position of trust sufficient to satisfy this sort of idealized management theory - which was pretty clear in the post you responded to.  No one would disagree with your point if it were made in a vacuum, but it isn't.  

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, 24fps said:

I see no indication that Duquette has ever been in a position of trust sufficient to satisfy this sort of idealized management theory - which was pretty clear in the post you responded to.  No one would disagree with your point if it were made in a vacuum, but it isn't.  

Peter's high point of trust with Dan  was probably in July of 2014 when they traded for Andrew Miller.   They won the Division and beat the Tigers in the playoffs.  But Dan threw that trust away with his Toronto promotion interest just after the playoffs ended in 2014.

[spiritof66]

19 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Peter's high point of trust with Dan  was probably in July of 2014 when they traded for Andrew Miller.   They won the Division and beat the Tigers in the playoffs.  But Dan threw that trust away with his Toronto promotion interest just after the playoffs ended in 2014.

If that's true -- and certainly many knowledgeable posters believe this, and it makes sense -- it's just another mark on the "Why Peter Angelos is an idiot" scoresheet: "Because another team tried to hire my top baseball guy and he was interested, I'm going to insist that he stay here for four more years, to the end of his contract. Because another team tried to hire him and he was interested, I can't trust him anymore."

[El Gordo]

6 hours ago, wildcard said:

I agree with that but this many high profile bad decisions does not deserve an extension or a new contract.

If he didn't have to deal with PA he wouldn't have had that many poor decisions. 

[mdbdotcom]

6 hours ago, wildcard said:

I agree with that but this many high profile bad decisions does not deserve an extension or a new contract.

C'mon, Buck, we know it's you.

[spiritof66]

6 hours ago, wildcard said:

A GM does not talk an owner out of decision after he makes it.  He is involved in the decision before the decision made and helps guide the owner in the best direction for the organization.

Not necessarily. Some owners are intelligent people who, recognizing that they don't know everything and that there are other smart people in the world, might change their minds when knowledgeable employees disagree with them.

We haven't had one of those for a while.

[weams]

20 hours ago, El Gordo said:

So has every other GM to work for Angelos. Actually Dan is the most successful of his GM.s 

Undeniable. That is why he was so sought after. 

[weams]

12 hours ago, spiritof66 said:

 Some owners are intelligent people who, recognizing that they don't know everything and that there are other smart people in the world, might change their minds when knowledgeable employees disagree with them.

There are so few of those types. Not just in sport.  Great wealth really encourages megalomania. 

[Greg Pappas]

From Keith Law's chat on Thursday: 
 

Quote

Nate: Where do the Orioles go from here? I look at that roster, and I see nobody with any trade value at all. So it will probably be a quiet off-season. Do Orioles fans just sit back, and hope the O’s draft well for the next three years, and tune back in around 2021? 
Keith Law: Hope they draft well and do more internationally (after years of avoiding the market) and change up their development processes for pitchers (of which Buck was a part) and find some value on the scrap heap. It’s a long road back to respectability. I have no objection at all to Duquette getting an extension – the reality is he’s done that job with one hand tied behind his back for years – but has any GM kept his job after a 110 loss season before? I guess Dombrowski sort of counts in Detroit, but that thing was on fire when he sat down on it.

He would later say this:

Quote

Keith Law: Keeping Showalter, given their problems developing pitching under his watch, and thus saying the new GM doesn’t get to pick his manager, would be a big concern if I were an O’s fan.

 

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, weams said:

There are so few of those types. Not just in sport.  Great wealth really encourages megalomania. 

Maybe, but to some extent I think they are the ones you tend to read a hear a lot about. 

I have met two MLB owners. Neither is a megalomaniac. If you met either one in a bar you wouldn't guess he owned an MLB team (except that you might guess they've made some money since you'd notice that they're real bright). I would think they both listen carefully to their hired professionals, make up their minds, and remain open to changing them.