Jump to content

Loverro: The Orioles could be sold this winter

Tony-OH

By Tony-OH
in Orioles Talk

Recommended Posts

atomic Hangout Grand Counsel

atomic

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, foxfield said:

First...I am not an attorney.  

But I too believe that if PA wants the team to stay in the family, they will go to court if MLB vetos.

Spiritof66 has the clearly stated and has MLB rules on his side, but courts exist to settle differences of opinion regarding rules and sometimes objections to those rules.  The Angelos family if forced to sell because of PA's death and in opposition of his Last Will and Testament would in my opinion would land in court.  Legally the reasons may be weak, but that would not stop them from occurring and would not necessarily prevent them from success.

1)  A forced sale as a result of blocking family transfer could be deemed illegal on the grounds of financial harm...ie an intentional devaluing of an asset.  Difficult to prove and alone not enough, but conceptually, anything that HAS to be sold can be deemed discounted due to limitations placed upon said sale.

2)  Another means of challenge could be that MLB was in breach of it's own fiduciary duties, and forcing a sale by blocking the type of transfer it has never before blocked.  This could well weaken the stance of other owners.  MLB may well wish to rid itself of the Angelos family, but doing so by expanding the powers of MLB, may force other owners to look into the mirror and change their view.  Again, flimsy but not impossible.

3)  Finally, anytime there is this much money on the table, it would be foolish to think that there are not legal arguments to be made in opposition to seemingly obvious rule of law.

 

Again, I am not an attorney, but I did spend 20+ years in Trusts and Estate work and one thing that never ceased to amaze me was how easy it was for challenges to to make it to court.  I agree completely with every word Spritof66 has written, that blocking the transfer of the Orioles to the family of PA would be perfectly legal.  But I do also believe that IF (and I have no idea if that is what is going to happen) PA wants his family to keep the Orioles and run them....and MLB does not approve...the Angelos family and MLB would likely go to court.

  

 

I would also add that IF the MLB wanted to force action....it is in a seem to be in a much stronger position right now....

1) Orioles not communicating about who is in charge...

 2) Endlessly battling with MLB over MASN...

  

 

If people want to hold up something they can.  I recently read about Anna Nicole Smith and E Pierce Marshall fight over an estate and the case was appealed to the Supreme Court twice and took 11 years to finally end and Both parties were dead by the time it was settled and it was more a case of one side running out of money.  If you have as much money as Angelos family and MLB you can keep it going forever. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Replies 150
  • Created
  • Last Reply
atomic Hangout Grand Counsel

atomic

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, wildcard said:

About half the teams in the MLB wish they had the record the O's have had over the last 7 years.  There is no proving that the Angelos can't  run  a MLB team.

This is about the Angelos sons.  Did you not realize that Peter Angelos is in poor health and no longer running the club? If you don't maybe you should be reading more and commenting less. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, atomic said:

This is about the Angelos sons.  Did you not realize that Peter Angelos is in poor health and no longer running the club? If you don't maybe you should be reading more and commenting less. 

John Angelos has managed the business side of the Orioles and MASN for 5 to 10 years.  There is no reason to believe he can not run the Orioles going forward.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

Posted
Posted

The reason the Angelos family would fight to stay in the MLB is money.   The taxes on a sale could be as much as 400m.    I believe this because what I have read about the Tigers transfer.  The other owners know this and that will certainly go into their thinking when a vote comes up.  Would they want a precedent set that could be used against them in the future?

The Tigers were put into a family trust when their owner died.  The Trust is set up for the wife and children.  There were no taxes due because of the Trust from what I have read.  The MLB owners approved the transfer to the Trust.   I think the owners will be hard pressed to set a precedent of denying a similar transfer to a Angelos Trust for the Orioles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Satyr3206 Hangout Grand Counsel

Satyr3206

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

The reason the Angelos family would fight to stay in the MLB is money.   The taxes on a sale could be as much as 400m.    I believe this because what I have read about the Tigers transfer.  The other owners know this and that will certainly go into their thinking when a vote comes up.  Would they want a precedent set that could be used against them in the future?

The Tigers were put into a family trust when their owner died.  The Trust is set up of the wife and children.  There were no taxes due because of the Trust from what I have read.  The MLB owners approved the transfer to the Trust.   I think the owners will be hard pressed to set a precedent of denying a similar transfer to a Angelos Trust for the Orioles.

I have thought there was a Trust for quite some time. I can't imagine Peter Angelos not planning for this kind of transition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
LC_O's_87 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

LC_O's_87

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, wildcard said:

The Tigers were put into a family trust when their owner died.  The Trust is set up for the wife and children.  There were no taxes due because of the Trust from what I have read.  The MLB owners approved the transfer to the Trust.   I think the owners will be hard pressed to set a precedent of denying a similar transfer to a Angelos Trust for the Orioles.

I was going to reference this as well.  The key fact is that Mike Ilitch's ownership stake in the Tigers was transferred to the Trust years before he passed away.  And I suppose it was presumably approved by MLB.

This article describes some of the backstory with sports franchise successions:

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20170218/NEWS/170219847/who-owns-the-tigers-family-plan-is-a-matter-of-trust

Perhaps Angelos already transferred his stake to the trust but it's impossible for any of us to know that.

I would also reference back to the articles that came out in June/July about  the Orioles pitching settlement offers to Washington in the MASN dispute.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-md-orioles-nationals-masn-20180628-story.html

I know the Camden Depot tweeted their opinion that the push to settle could be related to the need to value P.A.'s stakes in the Orioles and MASN in order to sell the assets.  But, perhaps it was because P.A. actually hasn't created a trust and part of the reason is because they can't value his stakes in either enterprise b/c of the ongoing litigation.

bottom line - we'll know when we know.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
atomic Hangout Grand Counsel

atomic

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, wildcard said:

John Angelos has managed the business side of the Orioles and MASN for 5 to 10 years.  There is no reason to believe he can not run the Orioles going forward.

The teams actions this season beg to differ. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dipper9 Hangout Grand Counsel

Dipper9

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

93-69

85-77

96-66

81-81

89-73

75-87

47-115

566-568

Half the teams in MLB want to be two games under .500 over the last seven years while coming off an all-time poor season?

 

This year skewed the stats by 68 games under .500.  From 2012-2017 the Orioles were a successful franchise.  This year was like a snowball rolling downhill, each bad day creating a worse situation day by day.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Dipper9 said:

This year skewed the stats by 68 games under .500.  From 2012-2017 the Orioles were a successful franchise.  This year was like a snowball rolling downhill, each bad day creating a worse situation day by day.  

The dates were cherry-picked by someone else.

How many teams do you think are further from being competitive than the Orioles?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
maybenxtyr Hangout Veteran Council

maybenxtyr

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

The dates were cherry-picked by someone else.

How many teams do you think are further from being competitive than the Orioles?

 

The answer has to be 29 teams... right?

I mean, when you factor in everything, division, farm, and ML roster I don't think any team is in worse shape. That isn't even accounting for the owners.

5 years is a long time but I don't see them being competitive in that time frame.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing


  • Posts

    • wildcard
      RHH Outfield Targets

      By wildcard · Posted

      Let  Westy  play 3B vs right handed pitching and LF vs left-handed pitching.    Urias can play 3B vs lefties.   This is only needed if Cowser can't hit lefties. Mateo and Westy can be platoon in the outfield IMO.
    • Aristotelian
      RHH Outfield Targets

      By Aristotelian · Posted

      O'Neil seems like a perfect fit if he doesn't cost too much in years or dollars.   
    • sportsfan8703
      Still think this team didn't choke under pressure?

      By sportsfan8703 · Posted

      I don’t think we choked. Stubborn as hell. We literally went down with the same sinking ship philosophy that we had the entire 2nd half of the season.  The young guys just have to adjust. I mean getting completely shut down for 5 post season games has to wear on them. If it doesn’t, then we were never built to win. 
    • sportsfan8703
      RHH Outfield Targets

      By sportsfan8703 · Posted

      Right now the 2025 OF has three LHH OF in Cowser, Mullins, and Kjerstad. I’m not sure what the bench makeup of this team will be, but it looks like we’ll need 1-2 RHH options.  We could bring Slater back on a small “Tony Kemp” like 1 year deal or a milb deal.  With Santander leaving, and Mateo back to being in the CF mix once healthy, do we go with a more COF RHH type? Trades are a possibility as well, but here is a list of upcoming RHH OF Free Agents,    
    • Jagwar
      Offseason Trade Pondering

      By Jagwar · Posted

      I actually didn't suggest a reliever as the return, that was SG. I was thinking more about trading veterans to acquire pitching prospects, probably lower level lottery tickets. I'd rather pick up ML roster pieces through free agency (assuming of course that Rubenstein will allow a significant payroll boost.).
    • Jammer7
      Co-hitting coach Ryan Fuller, Fredi Gonzalez and Jose Hernandez let go

      By Jammer7 · Posted

      Each player is different. Each player may have a somewhat different hitting philosophy, based on their strengths and weaknesses. Not everyone is a “power hitter.” I would not coach a Tony Santander the same as a Jordan Westburg, or a Jorge Mateo, or a Cedric Mullins. Some should be more selective, while others may need to do more damage and it’s ok for them to K more because the power payoff is worth it. Some should have a more oppo approach, while others may need to try to pull the ball more. The Waltimore certainly has messed with many of our RH bats.  Being a hitting coach is a lot of work, and it is usually not often a position held for many years. They seem to often be a scapegoat when the players do not hit. I wonder what drove the players to swing more at pitches they probably should not have. I seriously doubt it was Ryan Fuller. Hitting coaches have a general philosophical approach, like Fuller would have hitters learn to take pitches they cannot hit well, with less than 2 strikes.. He wanted them to swing only at pitches they can do damage with. They do not dramatically change. For the Orioles to become much more free swinging, that must have driven Fuller to leave. So be it. Going forward, they probably need to be somewhere in between the previous two years. In the playoffs, they get pitched to differently. It’s higher intensity. You have to be proficient in putting the ball in play. You have to be able to take what the game gives you, and execute. There is no excuse for repeatedly having runners in scoring position with less than two outs and repeatedly not being able to get them home. Bases loaded, no outs, hitters 2,3 and 4 coming up…we have to score there. The approach was to hit a grand slam. Awful baseball. A ton of talent on this roster, and something has to change. 
    • wildcard
      Do we agree that developing Kjerstad RF, Holliday 2B and Mayo 1B/DH.......

      By wildcard · Posted

      I have been pretty happy with Kjerstad's defense in the outfield corners.   Not that I want him in left at home.     I agree with what Elias said about Mayo's body type being more suited for 1B.

  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...