Britton on the use of analytics in New York vs. Baltimore

[WSFan]

That’s precisely the point.  A less experienced manager may be more receptive. I never said they use Analytics because Boone is the manager.  By the way, condescension is not necessary for you to include in your response.

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, WSFan said:

That’s precisely the point.  A less experienced manager may be more receptive. I never said they use Analytics because Boone is the manager.  By the way, condescension is not necessary for you to include in your response.

You said

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 Perhaps  a team like the Yankees rely more on Analytics because they have a young, first-time manager

How is that different than

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they use Analytics because Boone is the manager.

?

To me they seem pretty equivalent statements.

[WSFan]

“Rely on more because...” not necessarily use exclusively because Boone is manager. I guess it’s subject to interpretation.My point being that there was a suggestion that Boone was incapable of thinking on the fly when actual circumstances forced him to make adjustments.

[Can_of_corn]

 

4 minutes ago, WSFan said:

“Rely on more because...” not necessarily use exclusively because Boone is manager. I guess it’s subject to interpretation.My point being that there was a suggestion that Boone was incapable of thinking on the fly when actual circumstances forced him to make adjustments.

My understanding is that the change in managers was due to Cashman wanting someone friendlier to analytics. That doesn't mean he would use them exclusively.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

11 minutes ago, WSFan said:

“Rely on more because...” not necessarily use exclusively because Boone is manager. I guess it’s subject to interpretation.My point being that there was a suggestion that Boone was incapable of thinking on the fly when actual circumstances forced him to make adjustments.

Boone is just a puppet for Cashman in the dugout.  

[Barnaby Graves]

11 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Boone is just a puppet for Cashman in the dugout.  

Seems like a better approach than the GM being a puppet for the manager and his favorite players.

I guess it depends on the approach of the puppeteer though.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 minute ago, Barnaby Graves said:

Seems like a better approach than the GM being a puppet for the manager and his favorite players.

I guess it depends on the approach of the puppeteer though.

Ha, yes.  The Orioles puppet show is lame in comparison.  

[Redskins Rick]

10 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

My understanding is that the change in managers was due to Cashman wanting someone friendlier to analytics. That doesn't mean he would use them exclusively.

Girardi being an Arse, might have help the case some.

[TonySoprano]

I'm putting this here, but the analytics story is bigger than just Britton and could be a separate topic.  Also, there was apparently a dispute about them between Dan and Buck.   From @Moose Milligan's hero, Ken Rosenthal.

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Machado’s improvements in defensive runs saved and ultimate zone rating during the regular season bode well for his case to remain at short rather than return to third base for teams interested in him as a free agent; some executives now believe Machado, 26, will be viable at short for at least a portion of any long-term contract.

The difference in his numbers — from -18 DRS and -7.2 UZR with the 115-loss Orioles to +6 and +0.8 with the 92-win Dodgers — also reveal one of the fissures between two top officials recently fired by Baltimore, executive vice-president Dan Duquette and manager Buck Showalter.

Duquette and other members of his front office believe Machado and other players who left the Orioles benefited from joining teams with managers and coaches who were more receptive to analytics. Showalter and infield instructor Bobby Dickerson dispute that notion, saying they were open to any numbers available to them and willing to put the data to use.

Machado was not available for comment, but three pitchers the Orioles traded this season — the Yankees’  Zach Britton and Braves’ Kevin Gausman and Brad Brach — have spoken publicly about how their new clubs offered them greater exposure to data than the Orioles did.

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“To insinuate that we would shun any info we had access to that might help us win is almost comical,” Showalter said. “Painting us as anti-info or anti-analytics is completely off-base and a poor portrayal.”

Duquette, informed of Showalter’s comments, pointed to the improvements of a number of former Baltimore pitchers with other clubs this season — and regressions of free-agent right-handers Alex Cobb and Andrew Cashner after joining the Orioles. (Duquette, as previously reported by The Athletic, had pondered the dismissal of pitching coach Roger McDowell after last season.)

“The question is why did (Wade) Miley, Edwin Jackson, (Jeremy) Hellickson, Gausman, Britton, Brach and (Vidal) Nuño pitch more effectively with other clubs than with the O’s and, conversely, what made Cobb and Cashner less effective with the O’s in 2018 than they were in 2017? And why are the agents calling the front office to intercede, to request the club implement a more analytical approach with the major-league field staff?” Duquette said.

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The undervaluing of analytics by Orioles ownership, sources said, was reflected by the losses of two analysts who left last off-season and were not replaced. Kevin Tenenbaum, who joined the Indians, and Kevin Ottsen, who joined the Brewers, served as conduits between the front office and field staff. Most of the information used by Showalter and his field staff came from the team’s four-person advance scouting team, three of whom traveled with the club.

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The staff incorporated recommendations from the advance team, according to sources; the Orioles ranked 21st in defensive shifts this season, though their maneuvering was not particularly effective, yielding the 11th highest weighted on-base average, according to Fangraphs. Duquette, however, was frustrated by what he perceived to be a lack of willingness by Showalter to make additional adjustments in infield and outfield positioning based on information developed by the front office, sources said.

 

[Moose Milligan]

Well dearest @TonySoprano is this Rosenthal with an axe to grind?  I'm relying on you to tell me how I should feel.

It's troubling if this is all true, I find it more easier to believe DD but of course I am biased here.  

But analytics can't make up for the fact that Machado all of a sudden looks like he's got more range at SS.  It can't make up for the fact that Miley Cyrus has middling stuff.  It can't make up for the fact that Gausman's fastball is so straight you could hang your clothes on it and he's susceptible to the big inning and a meltdown.  

 

[Ruzious]

knowledge is power, and the Yankees have a lot more power (in many ways) than the O's.  And there's just no reason to believe Britton would be anything but honest about it.  From what Tony's said about him and from listening to Britton throughout the years, he's a standup guy.  

[TonySoprano]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

But analytics can't make up for the fact that Machado all of a sudden looks like he's got more range at SS. 

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The Statcast numbers, representing averages, do not appear to fully account for the adjustments the Dodgers made with Machado. The components of UZR show Machado’s biggest improvement was in range. Simply put, he got to more balls after joining the Dodgers than he did with the Orioles.

Some of that might be due to Machado playing behind pitchers who were more capable of hitting their spots — the Dodgers ranked second in the majors in ERA, the Orioles 30th. Some of it also might be from him adapting to a position he had not previously played regularly in the majors. 

 

[weams]

13 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

They Yankees don't use analytics because Boone is the manager.  Boone is the manager because the Yankees wanted someone more friendly toward analytics.

I sure hope increasing your knowledge base isn't a fad.

I believe in analytics in a macro sense. In a micro, anything can happen. There is not statistical advantage to individual events. 

[Ruzious]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Well dearest @TonySoprano is this Rosenthal with an axe to grind?  I'm relying on you to tell me how I should feel.

It's troubling if this is all true, I find it more easier to believe DD but of course I am biased here.  

But analytics can't make up for the fact that Machado all of a sudden looks like he's got more range at SS.  It can't make up for the fact that Miley Cyrus has middling stuff.  It can't make up for the fact that Gausman's fastball is so straight you could hang your clothes on it and he's susceptible to the big inning and a meltdown.  

 

And let's face it, Miley Cyrus can't hold Wade Miley's jockstrap.  Hmm, maybe I could word that better.

[weams]

30 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:

I'm putting this here, but the analytics story is bigger than just Britton and could be a separate topic.  Also, there was apparently a dispute about them between Dan and Buck.   From @Moose Milligan's hero, Ken Rosenthal.

 

Thanks for this.