TT: Silence of Ownership is Deafening

[SteveA]

47 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

I dont want to call out posters by name. But, there are a few on this site, that have been screaming for them to hire somebody since the decision was made to not retain Buck and DD.

I do wish the Angelos brothers would be more forthcoming, not sure even if they was, it was satisfy some.

What could they say to be more forthcoming now?   At best it would be a statement like "We are conducting a thorough and comprehensive search because this critical decision will affect the future of the team for the next decade and beyond."

They aren't going to give any specifics of who they have interviewed or who is in the lead.   That would be unprofessional and counterproductive.   They aren't going to talk about what philosophy they are looking for from a leader, because the leader they do hire will bring his or her own philosophy and what that person states is far more important than what the owners say.

So for all the people who want them to be saying something NOW, before the hiring process is complete, would the sentence above satisfy you?    Or would it just lead you to gripe that they said some words that didn't really tell us anything, or to say "words are nice but we need action".   

I mean what exactly do you WANT them to say now while the search is in progress?   I have a feeling anything they did say would be viewed negatively by people who are ready to view anything they say or do negatively.   I'm not saying that isn't a reasonable way to think after decades of mismanagement of this organization by the Angelos family.   But I think the people demanding they speak now would probably not believe anything they said if they did anyway.   Meanwhile, 99% of Oriole fans who aren't as fanatic as we are are thinking about Thanksgiving plans, other sports that are in season, or who to vote for in the election today.   They idea that any substantial number of Oriole fans is upset at the "delay" is absurd.

My priorities, in order:

1) The best possible hires to build a new a winning organization from the ground up

2) A commitment by the owners to give as much total control as possible to the newly hired baseball people (I realize that an owner has to have final say in some situations).   I would want to hear that commitment in the press conference announcing the hires, I don't need to hear it now.

3) Some sort of reasonable timeliness.   I would have liked to see something by today, as it's been a week after the World Series ended.   That was a date I brought up when people were whining in mid-October that "nothing had happened".   So we have finally hit a point where I think the search is starting to drag on a bit longer than I would have hoped.   But we just reached that point.   I would certainly like to see something BEFORE the winter meetings, which are 3? weeks away.  

....

999,999) Updates on the hiring process while it's going on.   Totally unimportant to me.   I don't need the instant gratification, and I don't think anything they say while the process is going on would make me feel any better anyway.   And I think all the people who are asking for that, would be unhappy if they got it anyway.   They'd just complain that JohnLou didn't say the exact words that will make them happy, or that how can you trust them anyway because words << actions.   So in other words, they would go from griping that they are being left in the dark to griping about what they are being told.   I doubt the candor they are demanding and saying is so critical would satisfy them anyway.

And for those that expect a giant mea culpa, saying the old ways are awful, we made huge mistakes, we let Brady do too much, etc... that's NOT going to happen.   It would be insulting to a man the owners care about who may be lying on his deathbed, or if he passes, it would be poor timing to insult his memory.   The owners, and the new hire, are NOT going to dwell on the past and say this was a mistake, that was a mistake, we were dysfunctional in this manner or that manner.   All they are going to do, and all I would expect them to do, is to talk about how they plan to move forward and do what's best for the team.   And then we have to wait and see if deeds live up to what they say they are going to do.

[weams]

1 hour ago, foxfield said:

While I think I agree with the gist of what you say here, nothing and I mean nothing could be further from the truth.  Yes, the Orioles are going to loose a bucket load of games and the record will be abysmal as will for the most part the product on the field for the entire season.

But this season means everything to this organization and it cannot be stated more clearly.  2019 MUST embark on a new path.  Not a different flavor of suckitude.  But a level setting and foundational departure from where this ownership has traveled for roughly a quarter century.  I'll go so far as to say that this season will determine the next 15 years of the franchise.  I really don't care how long it takes as long as they get it right.  I don't care who is hired to run it as long as they are allowed to run it.  But the franchise is a mere shell of what it was, and one of the best parks in the game is no longer good enough to prop it up.  And it isn't the general fans and it is certainly not those of us here who are more hard core that have these expectations.  MLB itself, I believe, is watching and will certainly have a chance to weigh in at the proper time.  You don't just hand off the keys to a limited edition and let anyone drive it.  Who controls the franchise after PA, will do so with the approval of MLB.

No, this season is the most important season perhaps in franchise history.  And I am ok that it moves slow and deliberate.  But make no mistake, the clock is definitely ticking, the toll of the bell is imminent.  Good luck Brothers Angelos...don't mess up.

I should have said  "This offseason and this season on the field mean nothing" Of course good hires are very important. More in the front office an on field staff. 

[SteveA]

1 hour ago, spiritof66 said:

I'm sure the second part of that is true. But again, I was trying to point out the potential effect of the Orioles' slow search on fans, the media, other teams, potential hires, etc., many of whom have a limited knowledge of what's on. What they do see is that baseball's worst team (and a party to MLB's worst player contract), frequently coupled with  "laughingstock" not long ago, took forever to get rid of its GM and manager and is the only team that doesn't seem to be making progress in bringing in replacements for a rudderless ship.

Making great hiring decisions and getting talented people to join the Orioles are, by far, the most important thing here. But perceptions of the process aren't helping a team that has serious image problems.

I would say the image problems are so longstanding and ingrained, that perceptions will not be good no matter what they do.  You think Rosenthal and his ilk will ever cut the organization a break.   If we make hires that are considered really good, at best, he will write a column saying "It looks like the Orioles might have hired some good people, but only time will tell if they are allowed to do what needs to be done".   Nothing that is done or said will help perceptions.

The only way perceptions will improve is if we:

1) Hire good people

2) Let them do their job unhindered by meddling

3) They do their job well and produce a winner

That's a longterm thing.   Until we either produce a winner or at the very least have a top 10 ranked farm system in several years, perception will be BAD.   So the hell with perception.   Who cares if a bunch of reporters don't give us kudos.   Chasing that kind of acclaim would be counterproductive.   The hole that has been dug is so deep that perceptions are simply not going to be good.   For quite a while.   Until tangible results occur.   So worrying about them is silly.

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, TonySoprano said:

As I’ve said before, the media takeaway in 2011 was one candidate turned down the Orioles offer and they hired a guy who was out of baseball for 10 years.  Then the team went to the playoffs 3 times in 5 years.  I don’t give a damn what the media thinks and certainly I wouldn’t have them enter into the decision process. 

You might care what the media said about your team if you were working to maintain the loyalty of a dwindling fan base, trying to sell tickets to watch a terrible team, looking to attract employees who had other options -- and expecting to be asking for the approval of MLB owners to a transfer of control over the team to you (or a family member). You might care if you wanted to show that there is a change in the way your team is being run, and if the hallmarks of the failed  prior regime included secrecy, indecisiveness and an unwillingness to communicate with the media or with fans.

I think I would care about those things. I wouldn't want those concerns to interfere with the primary task of hiring the best available people to rebuild my team and franchise. But I don't think I would ignore them, either. 

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

I don't believe this to be the truth. Honestly, if the Angelos brothers were just more forthcoming to the public with there process there would be a lot less concern. The veil of secrecy behind how they are doing things is what is bothersome to most. I don't think anyone just wants to hire a warm body not named Brady Anderson.

While thinking about the Astros,  if the O's are interested in Mike Elias. he could be the one holding things up.   I think he has interviewed  with the Giants.   Though the Giants may want Zaidi for President,  Elias could still be in the running for GM.  The O's may have to wait until the Giants pick their GM to settle on who they want if Elias is in the O's mix.

[SteveA]

1 minute ago, spiritof66 said:

You might care what the media said about your team if you were working to maintain the loyalty of a dwindling fan base, trying to sell tickets to watch a terrible team, looking to attract employees who had other options -- and expecting to be asking for the approval of MLB owners to a transfer of control over the team to you (or a family member). You might care if you wanted to show that there is a change in the way your team is being run, and if the hallmarks of the failed  prior regime included secrecy, indecisiveness and an unwillingness to communicate with the media or with fans.

I think I would care about those things. I wouldn't want those concerns to interfere with the primary task of hiring the best available people to rebuild my team and franchise. But I don't think I would ignore them, either. 

If you think more than 1% of people who might buy a ticket to a game next year are closely following this search, wondering why it is taking so long, or studying candidates to see who they might want ... you are crazy.   This search and the perception of it is only of interest to fanatic junkies like us.   And it will be forgotten once the hire is actually made and real moves/hires/etc start being made.   It will be like spring training games... we talk about them endlessly in March but as soon as the games start on the field we forget them.   Quick -- off the top of your head, did the Orioles have a winning or losing record in spring training?

As for selling tickets, that will be a challenge.   The people that buy the bulk of the tickets aren't fanatics like we are.   There are those of us who can't wait to see Mountcastle come to the plate in a major league uniform, or see Kremer pitch.   The majority of the people that buy tickets have never heard of those guys.   They will be UPSET that Adam Jones isn't on the team next year because they loved Adam.   The team will almost certainly have a losing record next year and they'll be upset with that too, and regardless of whether any progress is being made in strengthening the farm system, THAT will cause ticket sales to drop.   We could hire the best rebuilder in the world and he could make deals that vault us to a top 10 farm system and those of us on this board who follow closely would be ECSTATIC... but if the team on the field at OPACY is winning 52 games next year, fan support will drop even more. 

Taking too long for an executive search in the offseason will register so little with the majority of the fan base that it isn't even worth discussing.   And even its effect on us will be forgotten like a preseason game once the real action (hiring, player moves, player development) starts.

[weams]

8 minutes ago, SteveA said:

If you think more than 1% of people who might buy a ticket to a game next year are closely following this search, wondering why it is taking so long, or studying candidates to see who they might want ... you are crazy.   This search and the perception of it is only of interest to fanatic junkies like us.   And it will be forgotten once the hire is actually made and real moves/hires/etc start being made.   It will be like spring training games... we talk about them endlessly in March but as soon as the games start on the field we forget them.   Quick -- off the top of your head, did the Orioles have a winning or losing record in spring training?

As for selling tickets, that will be a challenge.   The people that buy the bulk of the tickets aren't fanatics like we are.   There are those of us who can't wait to see Mountcastle come to the plate in a major league uniform, or see Kremer pitch.   The majority of the people that buy tickets have never heard of those guys.   They will be UPSET that Adam Jones isn't on the team next year because they loved Adam.   The team will almost certainly have a losing record next year and they'll be upset with that too, and regardless of whether any progress is being made in strengthening the farm system, THAT will cause ticket sales to drop.   We could hire the best rebuilder in the world and he could make deals that vault us to a top 10 farm system and those of us on this board who follow closely would be ECSTATIC... but if the team on the field at OPACY is winning 52 games next year, fan support will drop even more. 

Taking too long for an executive search in the offseason will register so little with the majority of the fan base that it isn't even worth discussing.   And even its effect on us will be forgotten like a preseason game once the real action (hiring, player moves, player development) starts.

They will need to be very creative to sell tickets this off season. I don't know how you would go about it. 

[TonySoprano]

26 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

You might care what the media said about your team if you were working to maintain the loyalty of a dwindling fan base, trying to sell tickets to watch a terrible team, looking to attract employees who had other options -- and expecting to be asking for the approval of MLB owners to a transfer of control over the team to you (or a family member). You might care if you wanted to show that there is a change in the way your team is being run, and if the hallmarks of the failed  prior regime included secrecy, indecisiveness and an unwillingness to communicate with the media or with fans.

I think I would care about those things. I wouldn't want those concerns to interfere with the primary task of hiring the best available people to rebuild my team and franchise. But I don't think I would ignore them, either. 

Hiring a team President should be an indication that there will be a change in how the team is run.  

I think the fanbase at large cares much more about the results on the field rather than what Jon Heyman or @Moose Milligan's pal Rosenthal have to say about how the hiring process went.    Pick a percentage, but the large majority of fans outside the OH do not follow the team nearly as in-depth as the diehard people here.  JoeFan and family check the standings, the next opponent, and the upcoming weather report, and not the latest media talking head column, before deciding whether or not to buy tickets. "Ooh, any good giveaways?"

After the Hindenburg disaster that was the 2018 season, no one in the media is going to be kind to the Orioles even if they hire the earthly equivalent of St. Jude (the patron saint of lost causes).

[Going Underground]

24 minutes ago, weams said:

They will need to be very creative to sell tickets this off season. I don't know how you would go about it. 

I think this year is a lost cause with the team and ticket sales.I hope they get the right person and soon.The thing that bothered me was Greg Bader putting out a press release of Duquette and Buck leaving.They have been with the Orioles many years and would think they would have handled it a little differently. Maybe get Bader's son to make a statement. He also works for the Orioles. 

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, TonySoprano said:

Hiring a team President should be an indication that there will be a change in how the team is run.  

I think the fanbase at large cares much more about the results on the field rather than what Jon Heyman or @Moose Milligan's pal Rosenthal have to say about how the hiring process went.    Pick a percentage, but the large majority of fans outside the OH do not follow the team nearly as in-depth as the diehard people here.  JoeFan and family check the standings, the next opponent, and the upcoming weather report, and not the latest media talking head column, before deciding whether or not to buy tickets. "Ooh, any good giveaways?"

After the Hindenburg disaster that was the 2018 season, no one in the media is going to be kind to the Orioles even if they hire the earthly equivalent of St. Jude (the patron saint of lost causes).

I think you want to like Rosenthal, you just have a hard time reconciling with the little TonySoprano inside that's a late 80s Orioles fan.  But it's ok, you got older, things change.  I bet you've read a few Rosenthal columns and hated yourself for liking them.  It's ok.  The late 80s and Eddie Murray were a long time ago.  Bury the hatchet.  

[weams]

10 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I think you want to like Rosenthal, you just have a hard time reconciling with the little TonySoprano inside that's a late 80s Orioles fan.  But it's ok, you got older, things change.  I bet you've read a few Rosenthal columns and hated yourself for liking them.  It's ok.  The late 80s and Eddie Murray were a long time ago.  Bury the hatchet.  

I don't like Ken. And you know that.  I forgive him. I just don't like him.  And I do love Ed. Great guy. He had a very engaging conversation with ~d  about his roots and the efforts that he has put into youth baseball in his home area. As nice a guy in person as he was a fearsome rock in our lineup. 

[Moose Milligan]

5 minutes ago, weams said:

I don't like Ken. And you know that.  I forgive him. I just don't like him.  And I do love Ed. Great guy. He had a very engaging conversation with ~d  about his roots and the efforts that he has put into youth baseball in his home area. As nice a guy in person as he was a fearsome rock in our lineup. 

I know.  I just like giving Soprano grief.  I'm not a huge Rosenthal fan, I also don't hate him.  He does seem to scoop the local guys though.

 

[TonySoprano]

6 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

 I just like giving Soprano grief. 

Take a number and get in line. There are plenty ahead of you looking to give me grief.

[weams]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I know.  I just like giving Soprano grief.  I'm not a huge Rosenthal fan, I also don't hate him.  He does seem to scoop the local guys though.

 

We have no local guys... Other than Dan Connolly and Rich Dubroff. Meoli sometimes. I guess. Britt works for MLB and Roch for the Orioles. Britt and Roch do nice work, but they are not national pundits. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

2 hours ago, weams said:

They will need to be very creative to sell tickets this off season. I don't know how you would go about it. 

Chris Davis dunking booth promotion nights.