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Who should be dealt this winter/off-season?

Greg Pappas

By Greg Pappas
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tntoriole Hangout Grand Counsel

tntoriole

Posted
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Just now, weams said:

I'd be thrilled if he were able to net the Orioles two good pitching prospects. 

And I would be thrilled for him if he left this dysfunctional organization and blossomed (not that this organization has ever misjudged the future production of guys they have let go) .  Not thrilled for us...as unfortunately that would be usual for this organization, but for him.    

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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5 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

And I would be thrilled for him if he left this dysfunctional organization and blossomed (not that this organization has ever misjudged the future production of guys they have let go) .  Not thrilled for us...as unfortunately that would be usual for this organization, but for him.    

Real nice fellow. Not much left to be dysfunctional. We will see who all of the new folks are. And how they function. 

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wildbillhiccup Hangout Grand Counsel

wildbillhiccup

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16 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Just an observation.... I will not go through and tally up all the negative versus positive comments...but it is my feeling that the negative is out of proportion to Trey’s actual performance, imho....and given the truly awful performances in 2018 by EVERY Oriole, it just strikes me as odd that he gets the amount of negative comments he does and has since he before he made  the team. 

Maybe he turns out to be less than he has previously shown, but, either way...he is the least of this organization’s problems at the moment or for 2019. 

 

The problem is to be a player without a position in this day and age you need to hit. I mean really hit. That's the only justification for putting up with below average defense or clogging up the DH spot. I like Mancini, but I don't think he'll ever be an good or even average defensive player at any position and his 24 hrs aren't enough in this day and age to justify his defensive shortcomings. 

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tntoriole Hangout Grand Counsel

tntoriole

Posted
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Just now, weams said:

Real nice fellow. Not much left to be dysfunctional. We will see who all of the new folks are. And how they function. 

Absolutely...I am sure they will all be on board  and firing on all cylinders like a finely tuned machine by opening day...lol. 

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esmd All-Star

esmd

Posted
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On 11/11/2018 at 3:15 PM, wildcard said:

Trade any player that brings back more value that he has to the team.    

That said I don't think the O's trade anyone this off season.   

Cashner, Trumbo and Bleier should be traded next July.   

 No one wants Davis.   After his 2018 performance Cobb has to redeem himself before the O's can get really value for him.   Villar will probably be more valuable in July or next off season.  

Givens and Bundy are  still cheap.   I would trade  them if someone offered a haul in return but I will not trade them for equal value or to salary dump them.

Pretty much this, although I'd include Cobb in the July group, as he had a decent 2nd half.  If he gets off to a decent start next year, he'll have value in July.  I'd also possibly move Villar in July.  Agreed on Bundy and Givens, assuming they perform to expectations (big if, especially with Bundy and his roller coaster tendencies), I'd listen to offers from teams that really wanted them, but I wouldn't be calling people up shopping them.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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2 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

The problem is to be a player without a position in this day and age you need to hit. I mean really hit. That's the only justification for putting up with below average defense or clogging up the DH spot. I like Mancini, but I don't think he'll ever be an good or even average defensive player at any position and his 24 hrs aren't enough in this day and age to justify his defensive shortcomings. 

This is largely a myth.   The average OPS at 1B last year was .738; at DH, .778.   Mancini is a .777 career hitter.    That won’t wow anyone but there are plenty of teams who can use a 1B/DH who hits at that level.    

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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3 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Absolutely...I am sure they will all be on board  and firing on all cylinders like a finely tuned machine by opening day...lol. 

Who even knows who they will be and what structure they will have. Plus I don't expect them to be overpaid. 

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esmd All-Star

esmd

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I'd put Mancini in the Bundy/Givens category.  I'd play him at 1B from jump next season, with Trumbo and DH.  Davis rides the pine, and gets a few spot starts at DH.  He needs to earn his playing time.  If Mancini has a decent season, I'd move him in the right deal to a team that's blowing up my phone, but otherwise I'm fine with him at 1B during the rebuild.

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tntoriole Hangout Grand Counsel

tntoriole

Posted
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3 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

The problem is to be a player without a position in this day and age you need to hit. I mean really hit. That's the only justification for putting up with below average defense or clogging up the DH spot. I like Mancini, but I don't think he'll ever be an good or even average defensive player at any position and his 24 hrs aren't enough in this day and age to justify his defensive shortcomings. 

Ok...we disagree.   He has been played out of position for two years.  I believe playing him at his natural position, for, oh, I don’t know, say one season, could improve his performance. 

If not, then they should just release him, since you and others basically say he is not good enough to be on a ML roster either defensively or offensively or both.   His only advantage to the team is he is not paid much.    i respectfully disagree. 

 

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tntoriole Hangout Grand Counsel

tntoriole

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6 minutes ago, weams said:

Who even knows who they will be and what structure they will have. Plus I don't expect them to be overpaid. 

Yeah, heaven forbid they actually pay somebody to be “in complete control” of the organization’s future.  Let’s keep that cost down...lol

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wildbillhiccup Hangout Grand Counsel

wildbillhiccup

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15 minutes ago, Frobby said:

This is largely a myth.   The average OPS at 1B last year was .738; at DH, .778.   Mancini is a .777 career hitter.    That won’t wow anyone but there are plenty of teams who can use a 1B/DH who hits at that level.    

So we're citing one offensive statistic and basing our valuation of him solely on that number? And we're going to ignore his .242 batting average and his sub .300 on base percentage? Also, claiming Mancini can play 1B is a stretch at this point. If you compare Mancini's numbers with last season's DHs he ranks in the bottom tier in terms of his performance. And after two similar seasons I don't think many teams are going to be fooled into thinking he has more upside. He is what he is. 

 

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wildbillhiccup Hangout Grand Counsel

wildbillhiccup

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23 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Ok...we disagree.   He has been played out of position for two years.  I believe playing him at his natural position, for, oh, I don’t know, say one season, could improve his performance. 

If not, then they should just release him, since you and others basically say he is not good enough to be on a ML roster either defensively or offensively or both.   His only advantage to the team is he is not paid much.    i respectfully disagree. 

 

He has a natural position? I also never said they should release him. 

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esmd All-Star

esmd

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5 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

So we're citing one offensive statistic and basing our valuation of him solely on that number? And we're going to ignore his .242 batting average and his sub .300 on base percentage? Also, claiming Mancini can play 1B is a stretch at this point. If you compare Mancini's numbers with last season's DHs he ranks in the bottom tier in terms of his performance. And after two similar seasons I don't think many teams are going to be fooled into thinking he has more upside. He is what he is. 

 

You're assuming he repeats his 2018 performance and doesn't rebound to 2017 levels, or somewhere in between.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mancitr01.shtml

So one good year, one not so good year, and you're just ready to write him off as a non-prospect.  Umm...okay.  Maybe you'll turn out to be correct, but I'd at least list to see him given a chance at the 1B job everyday to see what happens.

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tntoriole Hangout Grand Counsel

tntoriole

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44 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

He has a natural position? I also never said they should release him. 

Just that he can’t play very well offensively or defensively.  You know many players who switch positions instantly from where they have played since grade school, college, multiple minor league levels and do well? 

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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1 hour ago, tntoriole said:

Yeah, heaven forbid they actually pay somebody to be “in complete control” of the organization’s future.  Let’s keep that cost down...lol

No one ever bragged about Trey Mancini in the field as a minor leaguer. 

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