Elias vs. Duquette

[Bahama O's Fan]

Specifically their philosophy for building a team. While here, Dan made it clear that he wanted the club to be competitive short term while drafting and developing well. Didn't turn out that way but that's what he said. Elias comes from Houston that had several terrible years followed by really good ones. Are we to assume short term failure on the MLB level for long term success?

[Moose Milligan]

Repeat after me:

None of it matters unless PGA/The Sons don't interfere.  

I think DD would have done much better if PGA hadn't interfered.  What he accomplished was a miracle.  

And we are to assume short term failure because, I said in another thread, we don't really have a choice.  The Orioles were going to suck with or without Elias or any other GM.  It's how Elias goes about scouting, drafting, developing and breaking into the international market is that what matters.  The real stuff to keep an eye on over the next few years isn't what's going to be happening on the field at OPACY, although that's some of it.   It'll be the minors and development, those are the most important things for the next 2-3 years.

[Frobby]

I think the team is in a different spot today than it was in 2011, even though most fans didn’t recognize that the 2011 team had already developed the core of a winning team.   

The thing I remember Duquette saying repeatedly in his early interviews was (paraphrasing): “the thing I really like about this team is it’s very strong up the middle with Wieters, Hardy and Jones.”   Contrast that to now where we have huge question marks at C, SS and CF (not to mention just about everywhere else).    And of course, that team had a rock-solid presence in RF, and a secret weapon about to burst on the scene at 3B.    The team Elias inherits has none of that.    He’s coming into a far worse situation in terms of the talent on the club.    So, he can’t take Duquette’s win now approach.   

That said, he has the advantage of a clearer leadership structure that Duquette never had, and I think both ownership and the fans will be a little less desperate for short term success, having only endured two losing seasons instead of 14.   So, the conditions are good to try to build a sustainable long term contender.    Good luck to him.

[weams]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Repeat after me:

None of it matters unless PGA/The Sons don't interfere.  

I think DD would have done much better if PGA hadn't interfered.  What he accomplished was a miracle.  

Bud. Peter Angelos is unable to interfere. 

[weams]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

I think DD would have done much better if PGA hadn't interfered.  What he accomplished was a miracle.  

I agree. 

[MikeAD]

Well it would have been silly for DD not to try to compete in the short term with the sort of talent the roster had at the time.  Almost all of that core is gone.  Elias has more of a clean slate.  Nothing matters unless the GM has free reign though.  

[terphoopsfan]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

Repeat after me:

None of it matters unless PGA/The Sons don't interfere.  

I think DD would have done much better if PGA hadn't interfered.  What he accomplished was a miracle.  

This is the one and only answer. There were a lot of things DD wanted to do but PA interfered. Then, after the Toronto Dan debacle, his authority was all but over with. PA thought he knew better than everyone else when Pat Gillick was here and wanted to trade some players (PA refused) and we ended up making the playoffs. After that no one couldn't tell him a thing.

I will say Moose regarding the Sons, for me it's more than just interference. If they don't put the $$$$ into analytics, MiL development, etc. and only half ass it and appear to be doing what's necessary when they're not then it doesn't matter who they hire.

[Moose Milligan]

6 minutes ago, weams said:

Bud. Peter Angelos is unable to interfere. 

Angelos = PGA and the Sons.  What's the plural here, Angeloses?  Angelos'?  

[mdbdotcom]

2 minutes ago, weams said:

I agree. 

Me too. 

But it wasn't just the interference in major league personnel. Duquette did not have the budget to build a modern scouting organization or or analytics team He couldn't compete for young international talent. He had a manager and an assistant who had more power in the organization and worked as roadblocks to the directions he wanted to take, like letting Davis and O'Day go in free agency. 

Hopefully, Elias is given the resources and freedom he needs to succeed. He's going to need them.

[theocean]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Angelos = PGA and the Sons.  What's the plural here, Angeloses?  Angelos'?  

Ownership might be a good way of referring to it, just out of respect to Peter's current condition.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, terphoopsfan said:

I will say Moose regarding the Sons, for me it's more than just interference. If they don't put the $$$$ into analytics, MiL development, etc. and only half ass it and appear to be doing what's necessary when they're not then it doesn't matter who they hire.

That'll be really hard to tell if they're spending on analytics, MIL development.  We don't know what they spend and where.

All signs point to the Angelos kids being able to keep their hands off, however based off the stench of their father, I am assuming otherwise until proven wrong.  

That said, you don't hire a guy like Elias if you don't plan to back him with money to work on analytics, advanced metrics, MiL scouting, etc.  That would be stupid.  But then again, this is a stupid franchise...guess we'll see what happens.

[mdbdotcom]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Angelos = PGA and the Sons.  What's the plural here, Angeloses?  Angelos'?  

Angelobos.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, theocean said:

Ownership might be a good way of referring to it, just out of respect to Peter's current condition.

Sure, that's a more diplomatic way of saying it.  I like the moment of fury I experience when I type Angelos though.  

[mdbdotcom]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Sure, that's a more diplomatic way of saying it.  I like the moment of fury I experience when I type Angelos though.  

Perhaps you could program your keyboard to output "ownership" when you type "Angelos."

[gmelson26]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Sure, that's a more diplomatic way of saying it.  I like the moment of fury I experience when I type Angelos though.  

I've taken to "the Angelos family."  It checks all the boxes.  It covers the kids, Peter, but most importantly Angelos is front and center.