A few nuggets....

[ChaosLex]

Basic human rights? Are folks saying that Trembley should subject Ramon Hernandez to physical torture when he makes a Little League caliber play on the basepaths?

That's actually not a bad idea. I bet Ramon Hernandez won't look so lackadaisical if Trembley breaks a finger (or two).

[Roll Tide]

O.K., Just read this entire thread.

First of all, JTrea, Trembley didn't say that he didn't want Bergesen up, I believe he was referring to Norfolk and said "Nobody has set the world on fire."

I'm not a huge Bill Hall fan, his career .317 OBP doesn't excite me at all. He was good in 2005, great in 2006, and has been horrible since. I'd prefer to see what the Dodgers woiuld give up for Bradford.

Hall is better than the b- or C prospect the Orioles would get for Bradford from the Dodgers. The Dodgers appear to be at war with themselves at this point. So I wouldn't be waiting on them for anything. Besides if they truly have a interest in Sherrill, he would certainly net more than Bradford!

If Hall can really play a solid defensive SS he is a serious upgrade & only 28 for a team that has had a serious gaping whole at SS. Also no one in sight. Other than aquiring a ready to play (or Nearly) SS prospect. I will believe that we can get one of those guys when I see it. Hall would be a huge upgrade from the laughing stock of guys we have played there this season. The contract is NOT favorable but, I would insist the Brew crew eats a good portion of it.

[Lucky Jim]

If you have veteran players who don't do things right and won't fix it, you don't go out of your way to embarrass them or bench them or send them to the brig. You play them as long as they can help the team, and you arrange things so they aren't on the team next year. It helps nothing to have guys around being PO'd and resentful and sulking. If you don't want them around, you arrange for them to not be around. In the meantime, you make the most of it. That's what Bobby Cox would do. He'd chew 'em out in private and be nice in public. And next year, ooops, they wouldn't be there.

This whole punishment idea is goofy. They're millionaires. You can't really hurt them, all you can do is make enemies in your own clubhouse. IMO, some folks here are way to focused on getting into dumb no-win power struggles and inventing battles, and are not focused enough on winning the war. I think most of the folks who say stuff like that have never actually been a boss, so they don't appreciate the situation DT is in.

This is an excellent point. But I'm not sure how this builds a foundation of "winning baseball."

I'm also not sure why we assume being chewed out in the clubhouse in front of your peers is all that much less embarrassing than a comment to the press.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Don't you see how selfish and wrong this is? This isn't about US. It isn't. It is about DT and that player and that team. We don't have the right to know that player X got scolded or fined for doing something incorrectly. This is an extremely egocentric point of view. It is also quite normal in this day and age.

I don't want my mistakes broadcast to those who aren't directly involved so I won't do it to someone else.

Bullsnoogans.

We are the fans. We are the reason these men are in the position they are as professional baseball players.

We have a right to know what is being done to correct mistakes within the team we support.

If you frequented a restaurant that suddenly had repeated problems with food quality, would you just take the word of the owner or chef that everything was fine, or would you want some evidence that things were being fixed?

[RShack]

Ummm. We are the client of the Baltimore Orioles. If I foul up and my client knows about it, you can be darn sure that my firm is going to let the client know that I've been held accountable.

I don't think this is right, VT.

If you stop for just a sec and think this through, I bet you'll agree this is a silly analogy ;-)

[BaltimoreTerp]

If you stop for just a sec and think this through, I bet you'll agree this is a silly analogy ;-)

Nope, it works fine.

If you think otherwise, I want you as a customer since I would never have to worry about offering quality customer service.

[Lucky Jim]

Your examples aren't personal attacks. They are commentaries on actions in a game, not an indictment of intent. That is a major difference.

Saying Player X is lazy is a personal attack. Saying Player Y isn't playing hard is a personal attack. Saying Player Z makes dumb decisions is a personal attack. Saying Vasquez made some poor decisions with the basketball isn't a personal attack.

DT routinely points out plays that weren't made that should have been made. He did it THREE times last night. What he doesn't do is personalize the comment.

I honestly don't know what you're even suggesting he do at this point.

You'll have to make clear to me the distinction:

Ramon is making too many bad decisions on the basepaths and it's costing us.

Vasquez is making too many bad decisions with the basketball and it's costing us.

Is the difference "dumb" versus "poor"? Then don't use dumb. I couldn't care less. Don't use lazy:

"I think we're going to look to get Ramon a lot more days off because he gives every appearance that he's tired out there. His reactions behind the plate have slowed and he's not getting down the line well at all."

Who cares about the subjective nature of what causes the poor performance. Just criticize the performance.

Did someone say that these players should be personally attacked? That the words "lazy" or "dumb" needed to be used? If not, then it would seem that people just think that DT should address deficiencies open and honestly.

Have you heard a word from him about Ramon's play? Palmer's been pretty clear what he thinks about it. I'm pretty sure you could make the point without using any kind of personal perjorative.

[RShack]

I'm also not sure why we assume being chewed out in the clubhouse in front of your peers is all that much less embarrassing than a comment to the press.

You don't do it in the clubhouse in front of everybody. That's what managers have offices for, and that's why there's a door they can shut.

[wildcard]

I am sure the Brewers would like the O's to take Bill Hall's bad contract off their hands but I don't see MacPhail doing that. Hall is a poor defensive player who does not hit well enough to justify his salary.

Bradford is owed $4.7M and he is pitching pretty well. Hall is owed $17.3M in a one year longer contract. This doesn't look like a deal that has much up side for the O's and MacPhail is not likely to bite. Unless the second player is Braun.

As far as Trembley goes. He is the best manager the O's have had since Dave Johnson. I hope he is around for a long, long time.

[Lucky Jim]

First of all, clearly embarrassment for you wouldn't be in the press. It would be in a meeting in front of peers, customers, and/or suppliers.

Second, you're talking about comments about actions. I've got no issue with that at all. Clearly, you can critique the plays in the game. What you shouldn't critique publically is intent. DT routinely points out the mistakes that were made in the game during his postgame presser.

Saying Ramon should stayed at third last night to the press is fine.

Saying Ramon is lazy or stupid or repeatedly a poor decision maker to the press isn't.

Why, does the quantity of Ramon's ineptitude make it an issue of intent? How many mistakes can DT refer to at one time? More than one? Less than five? He IS a repeat offender. Intent aside.

[Lucky Jim]

You don't do it in the clubhouse in front of everybody. That's what managers have offices for, and that's why there's a door they can shut.

You really think a closed door hermetically seals the discussion? Have you ever been in a gym locker room or clubhouse? That door blocks out the particulars. It doesn't block out the nature of the event.

[Roll Tide]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz !!!!!!!

[clarence]

Jesus Christ himself couldn't manage this collection (OR lack) of talent to a .500 season. I don't know why it is so hard to comprehend. This last thing AM needs to be worrying about is his manager. We are about 10 major leaguers away from having a competitive team, and until he gets those players or some develop, that is what he needs to be focused on. All this bickering about DT is kind of crazy. We just don't have that much talent.

[Lucky Jim]

If you stop for just a sec and think this through, I bet you'll agree this is a silly analogy ;-)

You'll have to enlighten me again, RShack. Please try to keep it under 500 words.

[RShack]

You really think a closed door hermetically seals the discussion? Have you ever been in a gym locker room or clubhouse? That door blocks out the particulars. It doesn't block out the nature of the event.

Of course it doesn't. If a guy's getting talked to, everybody knows it. Nothing wrong with that. That doesn't mean the conversation isn't private, and it doesn't mean that it's not done in a respectful way.

Players need to know things are being addressed, and they also need to know that, whenever it might be their turn, the door will be shut and the conversation will be private.

I don't see why people wanna turn this into some black and white thing, as if either the manager punches out a player or else he's being a wimp. Jeez...