O’s Trade for Another Catcher

[baltfan]

10 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

The Phillies must be really dumb to be trading for all this worthless slot money.

They are probably just going to use it to round out their DSL roster.

Can you tell me someone the Phillies have signed with any of the money the Orioles have traded them?  In other words, who have they gotten that the Orioles could have gotten but for not trading away the money?

[Frobby]

8 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Saw O’day is opening the season on the DL.  

That’s a shame.   I’d like to see him do well.

[weams]

12 hours ago, theocean said:

It's weird how DD got toasted by fans and the media about the lack of international signings, but Elias gets the benefit of the doubt while doing the same thing.

At least this is a 20 year old international guy.

[Ruzious]

24 minutes ago, weams said:

At least this is a 20 year old international guy.

Exactly.  They got a 20 year old Venezuelan prospect with their international money pool!  I'm satisfied.       

[sportsfan8703]

21 minutes ago, weams said:

At least this is a 20 year old international guy.

He’ll be 21 in a few days. But 21 at Delmarva, for a C, is pretty much on the right path. How is his defense?  Why hasn’t he played in many games?  

I assume he’s been the “2nd Catcher” on the teams he’s played on since he’s come stateside. Hopefully he cracks Delmarva. Never a bad thing to acquire C depth. For comparison, Wynns and Joseph didn’t hit full season ball until they were 23ish.

Might as well do something the slots before the new signing period resets.

[TheOtherRipken]

2 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

No I’m comparing two players making $10 million this season. DD was able to unload one of them. If everyone in this thread is so worried about money and where it’s being spent, then you should really appreciate that DD saved the franchise $10 million. 

I see your point about roster clogging though, O’day won’t be healthy enough to clog a roster this year. 

I don’t appreciate it, it wasn’t a good move. 

[DrungoHazewood]

9 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

I’m shocked this take is so prevalent.

The guy wasn’t media friendly and made his share of mistakes (as all GMs do, if Elias uses a data-based model for decision making, it practically guarantees that he’ll be wrong plenty) but he took a team from the depths of the dark ages to the playoffs by maximizing roster talent in ways few teams were doing at the time. He did this under the constraints of a controlling owner, a rogue Brady, and with a manager who he didn’t hire (a quality manager, but a less than ideal situation nonetheless).

It's the internet.  A full 18% of worldwide content is people slacking off at work, typing away furiously about how their favorite team would be 25% better with them in charge.

[DrungoHazewood]

8 hours ago, Philip said:

He’s gone. It’s a new day. That’s what matters. I stand by what I said but I don’t want to spend time arguing about it, because he is done and gone( and no one is clamoring for his services.)If you disagree that’s fine.

I think it's implausible that a GM who ran a smaller-market team through an era where they had the best record in the AL East for four or five years was actually Jojo The Idiot Circus Boy.

[theocean]

10 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

I’m shocked this take is so prevalent.

The guy wasn’t media friendly and made his share of mistakes (as all GMs do, if Elias uses a data-based model for decision making, it practically guarantees that he’ll be wrong plenty) but he took a team from the depths of the dark ages to the playoffs by maximizing roster talent in ways few teams were doing at the time. He did this under the constraints of a controlling owner, a rogue Brady, and with a manager who he didn’t hire (a quality manager, but a less than ideal situation nonetheless).

I don't get it either. DD had a ton of constraints and managed to put together some pretty good teams. If they don't run into a red hot Royals team and Ned Yost's magical power - they make the World Series. Sure, he made some mistakes, but he did a fantastic job with one and sometimes two arms behind his back.

DD just couldn't catch a break within the organization, from fans, or from the media.

 

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, theocean said:

I don't get it either. DD had a ton of constraints and managed to put together some pretty good teams. If they don't run into a red hot Royals team and Ned Yost's magical power - they make the World Series. Sure, he made some mistakes, but he did a fantastic job with one and sometimes two arms behind his back.

DD just couldn't catch a break within the organization, from fans, or from the media.

I often think of the articles about Casey Stengel in Baseball Digest in the 1950s.  It was not uncommon for someone to write that if Casey would stop all this screwing around with weird lineups and platooning and using Whitey in relief five times a year and switching Gil McDougald from second to third to short the Yanks would really come together and win 120 or 130 games a year, instead of this measly 100 they've been doing.

An inherent trait of many sports fans is to treat their favorite team's management like they're a bunch of 3rd graders.

[interloper]

15 hours ago, Enjoy Terror said:

You do realize that at this point in the offseason last year Duquette had signed three international players— Elias has signed 19 so far.

This isn’t an international signing though, it’s a trade with the Phillies.

 

15 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Duquette was dealing with an owner who impeded signing International players.  Supposedly Elias isn't.

 

12 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Hold up, I would like you to show me where I said he wasn't being limited by ownership.

If I said that I'd like to be able to go back and edit it.

I thought I was being consistent in my view.

Right here. I guess you were being sarcastic or something, but the Enjoy Terror pretty much ruined your whole argument that Elias is impeded in signing international players. And then... you agreed? 

[Luke-OH]

Just now, interloper said:

 

 

Right here. I guess you were being sarcastic or something, but the Enjoy Terror pretty much ruined your whole argument that Elias is impeded in signing international players. And then... you agreed? 

Not really, there could be a cap to the size of bonus he's allowed to give out or something. I'm not really of that belief, although it is possible. I think it's more likely that Elias is using an abundance of caution in giving out big bonuses because he knows the history of the team not spending on international prospects and doesn't want to have a high profile bust shut things back down. So they are using a conservative valuation on guys like Sanchez and offering based on that, which may or may not get a deal done. Just my speculation. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, interloper said:

 

 

Right here. I guess you were being sarcastic or something, but the Enjoy Terror pretty much ruined your whole argument that Elias is impeded in signing international players. And then... you agreed? 

1- My argument is that, for whatever reason, Elias can't sign higher end Intentional players.  Now is that because he's been told don't exceed X dollars for any player or that he's been told he only has y to spend and doesn't think signing high end guys is the best use of that money?  I don't know, but I think it is one or the other.

2- My saying supposedly was my way of saying that I don't believe that he has a free reign while acknowledging that is the official story.

 

 

[interloper]

22 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

1- My argument is that, for whatever reason, Elias can't sign higher end Intentional players.  Now is that because he's been told don't exceed X dollars for any player or that he's been told he only has y to spend and doesn't think signing high end guys is the best use of that money?  I don't know, but I think it is one or the other.

2- My saying supposedly was my way of saying that I don't believe that he has a free reign while acknowledging that is the official story.

 

 

That's all fair I guess, i just take issue with the bolded. Not only do we not know, the facts to date don't support that it is likely to be true going forward. If you want to believe that, I guess that's fine considering the Orioles' track record. I get all that. But consider these facts:

1. Ownership has publicly stated they are changing course on the international market from prior years.

2. Elias has stated he wants the Orioles to be the "best" in this particular area.

3. Elias has stated similar things re: analytics and so far is building towards that unimpeded, which bodes well for other areas.

4. Elias has hired a Director of International Scouting (Perez), a position/title that did not exist before, and the person is a well-regarded up-and-comer in this area. He's no mere scout.

5. Elias personally visited the Dominican facilities with Perez. He has personally overseen the installation of some improvements down there and says they'll make more. 

6. They've signed a bunch of low-cost guys already.

7. There's no big money guys left save for one or two, who are both still on the market. Elias is an excellent scout and, along with Perez, they likely know who is worth spending money on. 

Taking all that into consideration, I'm not sure why it makes sense to believe Elias is somehow hamstrung. Given all of his comments about this taking time, which has been corroborated by others. Given everything we know, the most logical conclusion is NOT that Elias is being held back in some way.

[Can_of_corn]

Nice post.

Time will tell.

I'm always willing to admit my speculation is just that.