No deals per Olney

[Sports Guy]

Yup, we disagree. Tampa Bay just got 1 year, 2 months of a 900 OPS player who plays good defense and can run for two blocked minor leaguers, neither of whom is a good bet to EVER be nearly the player that Jason Bay is today. I agree that the Pirates should have traded Bay. They should have traded him years ago. They should have gotten a much better return to trade him.

Brignac had a 760 MiL OPS in AA last year and a 730 MiL OPS in AAA this year. He is a decent prospect, but he isn't anywhere near worth a Jason Bay.

Niemann is 25, in AAA, and looks like his best case scenario is 4.25 ERA innings eater at the major league level.

Tampa made out like bandits here IMO.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=5496

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=1716

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=25401

Who cares if they were blocked in TB? That is the whole point!

The Pirates are at least smart enough to recognize this...You target your players at teams that have good depth...Like the Orioles should have been doing with the Dodgers.

And a #3/#4 starter and a SS that is likely to be league average or better, with them making no money, is a good amount for Bay.

It was a very good deal by each side.

[olehippi]

Can we make a quick trade to Pittsburgh for Brignac?

Would have been nice if we had made a move for Brignac, but don't know what we have that would have interested the Rays....Scott maybe. And it's doubtful we'll have a chance to snatch him away from the Pirates.....but you never know.

[Fan4Life]

It's not about saying something negative about the O's... it's about having a definitive BASIS for saying something negative about the O's.

I'm sure you guys think there lesser moves that should have been made. That's fine, and this is a great place to debate that. But to say with any kind of certainty that MacPhail has passed up deals that would benefit us is just irresponsible because you don't know.

You don't know our scouts opinions, you don't know the opposition's scouts opinions, there are just WAAAAY too many variables to say that MacPhail missed the boat on anything.

Speculation is fine, but when it gets accusatory, that's a little over the top IMHO.

Boom!!! Hammer'in Hank is 2 for 2! More rep points for you...

[Sports Guy]

It's not about saying something negative about the O's... it's about having a definitive BASIS for saying something negative about the O's.

I'm sure you guys think there lesser moves that should have been made. That's fine, and this is a great place to debate that. But to say with any kind of certainty that MacPhail has passed up deals that would benefit us is just irresponsible because you don't know.

You don't know our scouts opinions, you don't know the opposition's scouts opinions, there are just WAAAAY too many variables to say that MacPhail missed the boat on anything.

Speculation is fine, but when it gets accusatory, that's a little over the top IMHO.

AM is asking for a lot...PERHAPS too much.

We also know that it is seemingly "my way or the highway" with him and I am not sure he is flexible enough.

[frankpembleton]

Here's the rub.

Nobody knows... so while they can speculate what they think the offers might have / could have / should have been, they don't know and they never will know with any kind of certainty.

I'm sure that's maddening for some people, but I'm comfortable enough with AM's decisions to date to believe that there was nothing worth doing.

This is just another opportunity for us message board geeks to try and prove how we think we could do a better job than the guy running the team. But the truth of the matter is we don't know the reality of the situation.

Sure, we don't know what was happening behind closed doors.

What we do know is that as we enter our 11 consecutive losing season, we again sit on the sidelines and watch other teams wheel and deal while we do nothing. We know that we are a long ways away from contention and have a bunch of players that are putting up great seasons for a completely mediocre team who won't be around when the Orioles might have an outside shot of competing (2 or 3 years from now).

It's just frustrating.

[TGO]

According to the media, Manny says he will only waive his NTC, if the trading team that he's going to declines his options and will NOT offer him arbitration. Thus, no draft picks.

Well then, that's why he will end up not traded, unless the Sox seriously drop their asking price.

[Sports Guy]

This is just not true. You can say things that are negative all day IF you aren't making assumptions. I didn't say a word about your disappointment in missing out on that starter the other day (sorry, my mind is drawing a blank). You were right. It was a classic buy low move and it appears we missed it. I can only hope the FO knows something that none of us know, but it is extremely reasonable to be upset about that non-move. He was picked up for virtually nothing and I can't imagine why we didn't get him.

You can continue to paint me as someone that NEVER criticizes the team, but it just isn't so and it makes you look very bad. I can point you to a LOT of posts this season that are critical toward the players and/or management. Doing stuff like this affects your credibility over the long haul IMO.

You are very pollyanna-ish towards AM and DT...And in the past, you were that way with the direction the old GMs were taking the team.

Seems like no matter who is in charge, they are usually making the right moves, in your eyes.

[Sports Guy]

Sure, we don't know what was happening behind closed doors.

What we do know is that as we enter our 11 consecutive losing season, we again sit on the sidelines and watch other teams wheel and deal while we do nothing. We know that we are a long ways away from contention and have a bunch of players that are putting up great seasons for a completely mediocre team who won't be around when the Orioles might have an outside shot of competing (2 or 3 years from now).

It's just frustrating.

And meanwhile, many other AL teams have improved their positions as well.

The Orioles sit back and watch other teams accomplish things around them while they sit there playing switch and playing paper football on the conference tables.

[Hank Scorpio]

Sure, we don't know what was happening behind closed doors.

What we do know is that as we enter our 11 consecutive losing season, we again sit on the sidelines and watch other teams wheel and deal while we do nothing. We know that we are a long ways away from contention and have a bunch of players that are putting up great seasons for a completely mediocre team who won't be around when the Orioles might have an outside shot of competing (2 or 3 years from now).

It's just frustrating.

That I do understand.

[Stotle]

LF - McLouth

RF - Pearce/Tabata

CF - McCutchen

1B - Pearce

2B - Sanchez

3B - Alvarez

SS - Brignac

C - Doumit

Not a bad start...

[LAOSfan]

Sure, we don't know what was happening behind closed doors.

What we do know is that as we enter our 11 consecutive losing season, we again sit on the sidelines and watch other teams wheel and deal while we do nothing. We know that we are a long ways away from contention and have a bunch of players that are putting up great seasons for a completely mediocre team who won't be around when the Orioles might have an outside shot of competing (2 or 3 years from now).

It's just frustrating.

Didn't we just trade our best SP and position player in the OFFSEASON for 10 players? I see no reason why reason why we can't do that again this offseason. It's not like these guys are FA's at the end of the season and we would get nothing for them a la Mussina and BJ Ryan.

I understand the frustration because of the ten losing seasons, but Rome wasn't built in a day and unfortunately, AM inherited a mess from the previous GM regimes, whether you blame Angelos or not. The fact is, it's going to take time to do it properly and I believe AM realizes that.

[TinCup]

Is it 4PM EST yet?????

[Fairfax Bird]

You are very pollyanna-ish towards AM and DT...And in the past, you were that way with the direction the old GMs were taking the team.

Seems like no matter who is in charge, they are usually making the right moves, in your eyes.

And no matter who is in charge, they are making the wrong moves in your eyes, just so happens you have been right for the last 4 GMs.

[Sports Guy]

I disagree completely. Trading an All Star for two league average players gets you nowhere. When you've got value to trade, you need to get players who have upside that is much higher than league average. League average players can be signed, drafted, or gotten as 2nd/3rd pieces in trades rather easily. 900 OPS players are very hard to come by. They traded two ounces of gold for a pound of copper IMO.

This trade didn't hurt Tampa Bay AT ALL. As a matter of fact, I bet the Tampa front office has a huge smile right now. They should have been expected to give up more if they wanted Bay.

This is also another sign that TB is being run by some very astute minds which is another bad sign for the Orioles and the rest of the AL East.

So, they should have kept him, paid him his salary next year and run the risk that he has a similar year next year as he did last year and then end up with a draft pick?

[Hank Scorpio]

And no matter who is in charge, they are making the wrong moves in your eyes, just so happens you have been right for the last 4 GMs.

:laughlol::laughlol::laughlol: