No deals per Olney

[connja]

Now mlbtraderumors.com is saying the Bay to Rays might be off and he may still go to Boston!!! might take a few minutes to clear up, eh....

[Roll Tide]

The best fit would a deal for Brian Roberts, but I suspect the O's are asking a lot for him. Rightly so, by the way. Roberts has been one of the 10 most valuable position players in the AL this year. Teams

I'm sure this is this guys opinion ... But sure shuts up the guys who tried to diminish B-Rob's value in the offseason & the current spooge about his value.

[amateurfan]

You're worried about our 2010 starting nine because we've only got long term solutions at 5 of the 9 positions? This is your reasoning behind all the panicky, anti-MacPhail posts you've been making lately? I'd take a look around the majors and assess how many teams have more than 6 of their starting 9 determined for 2010. You might be VERY surprised.

You do realize that there are TWO offseasons to sign free agents and make trades between now and 2010, right? You do realize that MacPhail made two huge trades last offseason, right? At the rate he has gone so far, he won't even need to sign a FA or have someone else develop from the minors. He has picked up two starting position players in one offseason.

It just amazes me how little patience and trust some of you are willing to exhibit regarding a man who has done more right for this organization in a year on the job than his predecessors did in a decade.

• He hired the right manager and then retained him
• He let the previously untouchable pitching coach, who clearly wasn't a good match for this team, go
• He signed Wieters for a price FAR BELOW what most of the experts on here were ready to pay
• He made a damn good trade for Tejada that got us a starting left fielder that is producing very well and is under our control for four years
• He made a phenomenal trade for Bedard that got us our starting center fielder, our closer, one great prospect, and two good prospects

The man deserves more respect than most of you are showing him IMHO.

Yup, we disagree. Tampa Bay just got 1 year, 2 months of a 900 OPS player who plays good defense and can run for two blocked minor leaguers, neither of whom is a good bet to EVER be nearly the player that Jason Bay is today. I agree that the Pirates should have traded Bay. They should have traded him years ago. They should have gotten a much better return to trade him.

Brignac had a 760 MiL OPS in AA last year and a 730 MiL OPS in AAA this year. He is a decent prospect, but he isn't anywhere near worth a Jason Bay.

Niemann is 25, in AAA, and looks like his best case scenario is 4.25 ERA innings eater at the major league level.

Tampa made out like bandits here IMO.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=5496

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=1716

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=25401

MacPhail does deserve respect for his past and what he's done here, but I have to take exception to your list here.

Perlozzo hired DT, not MacPhail. He wasn't his first choice for manager, and I think the move he made to hire Girardi was the fastest he's done anything since he's been President of Baseball Operations. He clearly did not take a measured, slow approach on that and he clearly didn't think that DT was the right man for the job. The fact that he retained DT was pretty much forced by Trembley himself - he did a good job up to that point (and has continued to do so). If anyone deserves credit for that, it's Perlozzo.

I don't think letting Mazzone go is even worth noting.

AM did not sign Wieters, PGA did. I know that there was a link a different poster put up about it before. Also, after he signed, Jordan was on the radio stating that PGA signed him, not MacPhail.

The Tejada trade was ok. He also pulled that one off quickly, and he did so with the apparent knowledge that he was received damaged goods (though giving up a commodity damaged in it's own way). Personally, the Jason Bay trade to Tampa was a better return (at least one I'd rather have).

AM deserves a lot of credit for the Bedard trade. That was a phenomenal trade.

So far I think he's done a good job and I don't want to bash him. I'm willing to give him some patience on this lapsed deadline.

This, however, is my point of view. GS is of no help to this team now or in the future. You may not like the Bay trade, but Bay does Pittsburgh no good if he's still on their roster in 09. Brignac is a big piece back. Coupled with Niemann, that's much better than the two picks they would have received. They had to make moves that they thought were in their best interest for a winning team in the future. The Bay trade accomplishes that. I fear that AM's not trading GS might be indicative of a thought I'd rather not contemplate: that he thinks this team is close to winning. GS has done a nice job here, but he does the O's no good if he remains on this team. He's a replaceable commodity. I'm not advocating getting robbed, but at some point GS has to be moved.

I feel that there has been a seismic shift in the direction of this club. AM had all offseason and the first half of this one to trade Roberts and he didn't do it. I don't know why. GS did a pretty good job for us and could have been moved, but we don't know for what. Either way, he didn't move him. My point is that it's not just the GS trade. If he had traded Roberts and GS the O's would have received a good bounty and we could be sitting here discussing a good O's team in 2010. They are on their way, but it's still far off. GS is not doing this team any good on it. We're not winning. He's not preserving a lot of wins for the young starters; not because he isn't getting saves, but because they've not been very good. I don't see any point in having him on this team. It's not personal, and it isn't because he isn't any good, he just doesn't belong on this team.

I'll wait to read what AM says in the conference later, but I'm skeptical.

[Sports Guy]

See, this is what I mean. I didn't write that AT ALL. As a matter of fact, I wrote they should have traded him years ago. You distort everything right now that disagrees with your view.

No, the point is that they need to be better negotiators in the room. They just sold Bay for 80 cents on the dollar IMO which is fine if you've got lots of money, but is kind of silly if you've only got a few magic beans. I would be embarrassed to have to settle for that return if I'm the Pirate GM. Add this return to his previous trade of Nady and the guy is clearly over his head in the room with skilled negotiators.

LOL...One top 50 prospect and another top 100 prospect, both of whom have good upside and will be under control for 6 years is an embarrassing return? That is absurd.

And I am not distorting anything...The bottom line is if Pitt takes this deal, it is because it is the best deal on the table for them. So, you are saying not to take this deal?

And if you are saying they should have traded him years ago, then i assume you think Markakis should be dealt? BRob? Sherrill?

I mean, your line of thinking here makes no sense...They got a very solid return for a guy that entered the offseason with worse value than now...had they traded him in the offseason for a lot less, that would have been stupid..What they just did was get themselves 2 very solid prospects who could help them for many years.

[Dipper9]

MacPhail does deserve respect for his past and what he's done here, but I have to take exception to your list here.

Perlozzo hired DT, not MacPhail. He wasn't his first choice for manager, and I think the move he made to hire Girardi was the fastest he's done anything since he's been President of Baseball Operations. He clearly did not take a measured, slow approach on that and he clearly didn't think that DT was the right man for the job. The fact that he retained DT was pretty much forced by Trembley himself - he did a good job up to that point (and has continued to do so). If anyone deserves credit for that, it's Perlozzo.

I don't think letting Mazzone go is even worth noting.

AM did not sign Wieters, PGA did. I know that there was a link a different poster put up about it before. Also, after he signed, Jordan was on the radio stating that PGA signed him, not MacPhail.

The Tejada trade was ok. He also pulled that one off quickly, and he did so with the apparent knowledge that he was received damaged goods (though giving up a commodity damaged in it's own way). Personally, the Jason Bay trade to Tampa was a better return (at least one I'd rather have).

AM deserves a lot of credit for the Bedard trade. That was a phenomenal trade.

So far I think he's done a good job and I don't want to bash him. I'm willing to give him some patience on this lapsed deadline.

This, however, is my point of view. GS is of no help to this team now or in the future. You may not like the Bay trade, but Bay does Pittsburgh no good if he's still on their roster in 09. Brignac is a big piece back. Coupled with Niemann, that's much better than the two picks they would have received. They had to make moves that they thought were in their best interest for a winning team in the future. The Bay trade accomplishes that. I fear that AM's not trading GS might be indicative of a thought I'd rather not contemplate: that he thinks this team is close to winning. GS has done a nice job here, but he does the O's no good if he remains on this team. He's a replaceable commodity. I'm not advocating getting robbed, but at some point GS has to be moved.

I feel that there has been a seismic shift in the direction of this club. AM had all offseason and the first half of this one to trade Roberts and he didn't do it. I don't know why. GS did a pretty good job for us and could have been moved, but we don't know for what. Either way, he didn't move him. My point is that it's not just the GS trade. If he had traded Roberts and GS the O's would have received a good bounty and we could be sitting here discussing a good O's team in 2010. They are on their way, but it's still far off. GS is not doing this team any good on it. We're not winning. He's not preserving a lot of wins for the young starters; not because he isn't getting saves, but because they've not been very good. I don't see any point in having him on this team. It's not personal, and it isn't because he isn't any good, he just doesn't belong on this team.

I'll wait to read what AM says in the conference later, but I'm skeptical.

The FIRED manager hired his replacement? Huh?

[clapdiddy]

Well...at least it appears as if we got the Vero Beach deal signed. And don't forget that Miclat appears to be signing today (or soon) as well.

[J.D.]

And meanwhile, many other AL teams have improved their positions as well.

The Orioles sit back and watch other teams accomplish things around them while they sit there playing switch and playing paper football on the conference tables.

And yet again, you know absolutely zippy that's been happening behind closed doors. Nada. You don't know what's been offered. You don't know what's been turned down. The one thing I can say with confidence is that they've been listening to offers and negotiating. I certainly don't think that they've sat there idle all week. I'm fairly confident that 30 GMs out of 30 had a pretty busy month.

I'd rather have MacPhail ask for too much, but honestly, we don't know what was offered at all. We know that the Rockies offered Barmes for Guthrie. That's what we know for a fact. I haven't seen anything reported where we turned down hauls for Roberts, Huff, Sherrill, or anyone else.

It's way too easy to sit here and say "We should've targeted the Dodgers!!!" but that doesn't mean that the Dodgers ever had any inclination to trade LaRoche or Hu for Sherrill or Roberts or whatever piece we wanted to throw that way. And we have no idea if the Orioles asked or not.

The point is that there are some pretty speculative things being tossed around as concrete fact. Yeah, I think MacPhail's done a pretty good job to this point and deserves some leash and patience. We have no idea what can get done in August, but a lot of those minor moves that you're complaining haven't been made can still be made then. And there's a whole off-season ahead as well.

I just don't understand the artifically created need to rush everything. I'd rather a GM be meticulous and try to get who they want than have Pittsburgh's GM who just made two knee-jerk trades in a week while receiving less than ideal value in return.

[TonySoprano]

The FIRED manager hired his replacement? Huh?

Hired him as a coach.

[Sports Guy]

The FIRED manager hired his replacement? Huh?

Perlozzo brought DT here to begin with...Not AM. That was his point.

And he is also right in that DT wasn't his first choice.

[Three Run Homer]

Now mlbtraderumors.com is saying the Bay to Rays might be off and he may still go to Boston!!! might take a few minutes to clear up, eh....

Freeing Brignac to be traded for Sherrill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[olehippi]

AM is asking for a lot...PERHAPS too much.

We also know that it is seemingly "my way or the highway" with him and I am not sure he is flexible enough.

Because you don't know, with unquestioned certainty, that either of the above statements is true, they are no more than assumptions on your part.

And if even MacPhail does it the "my way or the highway" route, so far his way has delivered a helluva lot more than anyone elses way has in the last 10 years.

[amateurfan]

The FIRED manager hired his replacement? Huh?

To be one of his coaches. If he hadn't, DT sure wouldn't be the coach of the Orioles. It's not like AM picked out Trembley from a large pool of applicants. He fell into him.

[Sports Guy]

And yet again, you know absolutely zippy that's been happening behind closed doors. Nada. You don't know what's been offered. You don't know what's been turned down. The one thing I can say with confidence is that they've been listening to offers and negotiating. I certainly don't think that they've sat there idle all week. I'm fairly confident that 30 GMs out of 30 had a pretty busy month.

I'd rather have MacPhail ask for too much, but honestly, we don't know what was offered at all. We know that the Rockies offered Barmes for Guthrie. That's what we know for a fact. I haven't seen anything reported where we turned down hauls for Roberts, Huff, Sherrill, or anyone else.

It's way too easy to sit here and say "We should've targeted the Dodgers!!!" but that doesn't mean that the Dodgers ever had any inclination to trade LaRoche or Hu for Sherrill or Roberts or whatever piece we wanted to throw that way. And we have no idea if the Orioles asked or not.

The point is that there are some pretty speculative things being tossed around as concrete fact. Yeah, I think MacPhail's done a pretty good job to this point and deserves some leash and patience. We have no idea what can get done in August, but a lot of those minor moves that you're complaining haven't been made can still be made then. And there's a whole off-season ahead as well.

I just don't understand the artifically created need to rush everything. I'd rather a GM be meticulous and try to get who they want than have Pittsburgh's GM who just made two knee-jerk trades in a week while receiving less than ideal value in return.

Does the word winning mean anything to you?

If it does, that answers your question here.

[RShack]

I stick by my original assertion that I'm happy MacPhail is smart enough to not wet his pants over imaginary deadlines and make shortsighted deals to appease fans that are more interested in action than logic...

Have you looked into how many teams have more than 6 of the starting 9 players set for 2010?

Well, I think these 2 statements get to the crux of it.

He's got things to fix, and he's got 1.5 years to do it.

Getting a couple mid-grade prospects "at the deadline" completely misses the point. That's just action for the sake of action.

He's got to get guys who he actually wants. Exactly when he does it doesn't matter.

[Fairfax Bird]

LOL...One top 50 prospect and another top 100 prospect, both of whom have good upside and will be under control for 6 years is an embarrassing return? That is absurd.

And I am not distorting anything...The bottom line is if Pitt takes this deal, it is because it is the best deal on the table for them. So, you are saying not to take this deal?

And if you are saying they should have traded him years ago, then i assume you think Markakis should be dealt? BRob? Sherrill?

I mean, your line of thinking here makes no sense...They got a very solid return for a guy that entered the offseason with worse value than now...had they traded him in the offseason for a lot less, that would have been stupid..What they just did was get themselves 2 very solid prospects who could help them for many years.

Wow, where did you get this? Comparing Bay in his 5-6th year and Markakis in his 3rd isn't fair. I don't think there return was all that great. Not considering the talk coming out about the three way deal where they would have gotten Hermidia and 2 more prospects for Bay. Niemman doesn't look that good at all. He is back-end of the rotation. Brignac has great prospect status, but he really isn't producing all that much. I am sure Pirate fans are hopeful that he will be an above average SS, but I wouldn't bet on it.