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letgoflyers5

By letgoflyers5
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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

Posted
Posted
Because you don't know, with unquestioned certainty, that either of the above statements is true, they are no more than assumptions on your part.

And if even MacPhail does it the "my way or the highway" route, so far his way has delivered a helluva lot more than anyone elses way has in the last 10 years.

Who the hell cares?

The guys who preceeding him were pathetically bad...Are we supposed to pat him on the back for being better than the absolute worst?

Look, AM has this team going in the right direction, anyone denying that is a fool.

But many of you are happy with the couple of trades he did and are satisfied with just him doing that.

I don't think any of you realize how far away we are...I mean, in the time I have been on this website, every freakin year the same arguments are held...The only difference in the names on the jersey. And every year it is the same people saying the same things...We are close...Just sign this guy or that guy...Blah blah blah.

At some point, people are going to look up and say, my god we have had 15 straight losing seasons...What happened?

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

Posted
Posted
Wow, where did you get this? Comparing Bay in his 5-6th year and Markakis in his 3rd isn't fair. I don't think there return was all that great. Not considering the talk coming out about the three way deal where they would have gotten Hermidia and 2 more prospects for Bay. Niemman doesn't look that good at all. He is back-end of the rotation. Brignac has great prospect status, but he really isn't producing all that much. I am sure Pirate fans are hopeful that he will be an above average SS, but I wouldn't bet on it.

VaTech said Bay should have been dealt years ago...The Pirates and O's are in virtually the same situation...We have more money but the Pirates are in a more attainable division/league.

So, if the Pirates should have dealt Bay a few years ago, then I would assume trading markakis now would make sense in the eyes of VaTech(similar service time and similar team situations).

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TGO Hangout Grand Counsel

TGO

Posted
Posted
Does the word winning mean anything to you?

If it does, that answers your question here.

This is a ridiculous line of argument, completely unresponsive to his point. A total straw man.

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TinCup Major Leaguer

TinCup

Posted
Posted
As I wrote previously, you can't seem to quantify anyone's position without distorting it right now IMO, so let's just agree to disagree. I think the return is poor, not horrible, but below average for sure. You don't. Let's move on.

Casual observation here...I see VaTech staying on the "high road", foot to the pedal...SG, takes the same high road, just in a different lane??

;)

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amateurfan Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

amateurfan

Posted
Posted
I disagree with virtually everything you wrote in this post.

Perlozzo deserves credit for the fact that DT is our manager this year and MacPhail deserves none because he was the second choice? Yeh, I completely disagree.

Letting go of Mazzone was a no brainer move and AM should get no credit? Yeh, I completely disagree.

The Pirates haul for a better player (Bay vs Tejada) for a similar amount of time netted them a better result than what we got for Tejada? Two players who MAY become league average or slightly better are a better return than Luke Scott, who is producing WELL above league average just as predicted, plus the other four players received? Yeh, I completely disagree. If Brignac become the 700-725 OPS player I expect him to be, the win shares we received for Tejada will far exceed the win shares from the Bay trade.

The point you and Dipper seem to be missing is that AM would not have hired Trembley to be our manager if he weren't already on the staff and so he doesn't deserve credit for hiring him. You gave him credit as though he'd pulled off a great signing. It was luck. I'm not giving Perlozzo credit I simply stated that Perlozzo hired him and he fell into AM's lap. I don't think there's anyone out there fool enough to think that if AM his choice of managers from a clean slate he chooses Trembley. He doesn't deserve credit for that. Furthermore, don't twist that into a knock on AM, it isn't, but the arguments need to be relevant and on topic. Give AM credit for what he has done, not things he hasn't (and since we're on Trembley, he apparently doesn't have too much confidence in him - one year deal and no contract for next year yet).

Luke Scott is an avg LF. I like him, but let's not get carried away. Stating a big if on Brignac doesn't prove a point.

I don't think I was terribly disrespectful earlier, but you seem to be just about to lose it. I'm going to leave this discussion because you're not even tempered.

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Fairfax Bird Major Leaguer Rising Star

Fairfax Bird

Posted
Posted
VaTech said Bay should have been dealt years ago...The Pirates and O's are in virtually the same situation...We have more money but the Pirates are in a more attainable division/league.

So, if the Pirates should have dealt Bay a few years ago, then I would assume trading markakis now would make sense in the eyes of VaTech(similar service time and similar team situations).

I assume that VaTech meant after the 2006 season when saying "a few years ago," which would have put Bay further along in service time. I don't think the Bay situation is remotely close to Markakis's.

BTW, I am dissapointed that we didn't make trades for Sherrill and Roberts, but until I know what was asked and offered for each, I just can't get too upset. I agree with VaTech's assessment that the Pirates didn't get a good return for Bay, but you are apparently much higher on Brignac (and have been) than I am.

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HeatherC12 Major Leaguer

HeatherC12

Posted
Posted
Sounds like Bay to the Red Sox, Manny to the Dodgers, 4 minor leaguers to the Pirates....

And a partridge in a pair tree? ;)

I am SO glad the trade deadline is over. The baseball boards I go to really haven't been that much fun to visit lately. :eektf:

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J.D. Hangout Veteran Council

J.D.

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Posted
Does the word winning mean anything to you?

If it does, that answers your question here.

Psh. Silly me. You're absolutely right. He should've lowered his asking price to around what the Pirates got for Nady/Marte to grease the wheels a little. I mean, who cares if the return isn't what we expect? At least we're doing something.

Pulling out once sentence from my post and completely ignoring the rest where I mentioned that there's been wild speculation that's been accepted as fact isn't really addressing my point very well, but hey... no problems.

If I learn for a fact that we passed on a trade that would've significantly helped us in the long run, I'll be more than happy to get upset. But we have zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to support that right now. So the whole "We were inactive on trades I made up that made sense" thing just makes no sense to me at all. Just because we on a message board look at the Dodgers and think that we can get LaRoche from them doesn't make that a gospel fact.

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Pedro Cerrano Hangout Grand Counsel

Pedro Cerrano

Posted
Posted
Well, I think these 2 statements get to the crux of it.

He's got things to fix, and he's got 1.5 years to do it.

Getting a couple mid-grade prospects "at the deadline" completely misses the point. That's just action for the sake of action.

He's got to get guys who he actually wants. Exactly when he does it doesn't matter.

You seem to harp on this theme a lot. Did it ever occur to you that action at this point in time is necessary because we have several players whose value may be at an all-time high? (Huff, Sherrill etc).

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