Adam Dunn

[Flip217]

lol

It is common sense? I sure don't think there is much of a gap at all.

Maybe you're using uncommon sense?

I think there's a gap, too, but it's not that big.

[Leitch]

I think you're just picking and choosing whatever fits your conclusion.

Regardless of Eight's motives, zie is absolutely correct in that it is folly to evaluate a ballplayer in his prime based on the last 5 months of data.

[Eight]

lol

It is common sense? I sure don't think there is much of a gap at all.

You don't think the AL dominating the inter-league series or spending more on payroll indicates that it is a stronger league than the NL?

also:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/is-the-al-really-superior/

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/is-the-al-really-superior-part-2/

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/is-the-al-really-superior-part-3/

[Sports Guy]

lol

It is common sense? I sure don't think there is much of a gap at all.

Have you actually been paying attention to the game the last number of years?

The AL is clearly the stronger league.

[Ruzious]

Regardless of Eight's motives, zie is absolutely correct in that it is folly to evaluate a ballplayer in his prime based on the last 5 months of data.

I agree. That wasn't what I was arguing.

[davearm]

You don't think the AL dominating the inter-league series or spending more on payroll indicates that it is a stronger league than the NL?

also:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/is-the-al-really-superior/

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/is-the-al-really-superior-part-2/

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/is-the-al-really-superior-part-3/

What is the adjustment to OPS+ that makes an NL OPS+ directly comparable to an AL OPS+?

NL OPS+ * 0.9 = AL OPS+?

NL OPS+ * 0.6 = AL OPS+?

Really, that's what is called for here.

And nobody has the faintest clue what that adjustment factor needs to be. You'd be pulling a number straight out of the sky.

[TyCobb]

You don't think the AL dominating the inter-league series or spending more on payroll indicates that it is a stronger league than the NL?

also:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/is-the-al-really-superior/

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/is-the-al-really-superior-part-2/

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/is-the-al-really-superior-part-3/

by Mitchel Lichtman

July 05, 2006

Sure a few years ago the AL was slightly better. Now I think it is equal.

Last time I check the MLB leagues aren't made up how my town little league teams are (if you are north of the main road you are in the AL if not you are on a NL team)

AL payroll = 1.364 billion

NL payroll = 1.332 billion

Difference = 32,274621 million or 2.4% more than the NL.

[TyCobb]

Have you actually been paying attention to the game the last number of years?

The AL is clearly the stronger league.

Based on what? I have been watching. I see maybe 2 or 3 years ago the AL was a lot stronger. Now I don't think there is a difference at all.

[Eight]

by Mitchel Lichtman

July 05, 2006

Sure a few years ago the AL was slightly better. Now I think it is equal.

Last time I check the MLB leagues aren't made up how my town little league teams are (if you are north of the main road you are in the AL if not you are on a NL team)

AL payroll = 1.364 billion

NL payroll = 1.332 billion

Difference = 32,274621 million or 2.4% more than the NL.

Even though the AL has continued to dominate (more than ever) the NL in interleague play, you think the gap has closed?

And you do realize that the AL having two fewer teams and still spends more on total payroll right?

[TyCobb]

Even though the AL has continued to dominate (more than ever) the NL in interleague play, you think the gap has closed?

And you do realize that the AL having two fewer teams and still spends more on total payroll right?

Interleague play is a joke. I don't think you can come to a conclusion based on talent.

Did you notice that the Yankees have about ten times the payroll of the Marlins?

[Ruzious]

Even though the AL has continued to dominate (more than ever) the NL in interleague play, you think the gap has closed?

And you do realize that the AL having two fewer teams and still spends more on total payroll right?

But you'd also factor in the payroll effect of having the DH in the AL.

Then again, payroll is probably not the best way to evaluate which league is better.

[now]

The bottom line is Tex is clearly the better all around player...he means more wins, thus he is worth more money.

How much more and for how many more years can be debated but the one thing that isn't a debate is that Tex is a better player and by a decent margin as well.

Also, Tex has a great work ethic...Not sure about Dunn's though.

I don't know about the work ethic, except for a derogatory comment that Toronto's GM Riccardi made a few weeks ago..

And you're right about more value because of defense. But how much more value? I would bet just 1-2 wins max from the 1B defense, which probably doesn't qualify as "a decent margin" if that's the kind of major contract difference we're talking about in this thread.

One problem with making the above comparison is that Dunn would likely be a DH and not a 1B; but on the other hand the 1B position is not that different from DH in terms of the impact of differences in fielding skills. That is, when comparing two potential DH's, the difference in their fielding skills matters practically not at all; when comparing two potential SS's, the difference in their fielding skills matters a lot; when comparing two potential 1Bmen, the difference in their fielding skills is closer to the DH range than the SS range (the numbers Bill James plugged into the above positional impacts of fielding are 0, 11, and 3, for DH, SS and 1B). How these translate into wins would probably be in the range of half those numbers - i.e., if I remember correctly from the Tejada-Everett comparison, 5 wins from defense; I'd guess 1.5 wins difference for 1Bmen who are great vs. poor at defense.

Conclusion? DHs are discounted because it is "easier to find" pure hitters who can't field. Likewise, 1Bmen should be discounted too because it is easier to get away with a great-hitting poor-fielding choice than at any other position. 1B should not be that different than DH in terms of salary slot.

[Sports Guy]

I don't know about the work ethic, except for a derogatory comment that Toronto's GM Riccardi made a few weeks ago..

And you're right about more value because of defense. But how much more value? I would bet just 1-2 wins max from the 1B defense, which probably doesn't qualify as "a decent margin" if that's the kind of major contract difference we're talking about in this thread.

1-2 wins is probably worth another few million a year though and I would also think Tex will age better than Dunn, thus why Eight said an extra year or 2 shouldn't matter that much.

[TyCobb]

1-2 wins is probably worth another few million a year though and I would also think Tex will age better than Dunn, thus why Eight said an extra year or 2 shouldn't matter that much.

Tex is asking for a 10 year contract.

Lee got a 6 year. That is that max Dunn would get and probably more likely a 5 year (so he goes into the FA at 34 next time)

[weams]

He's Dunn

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/chicago-white-sox-designated-hitter-adam-dunn-done-180500474--mlb.html