Montanez not playing is a joke

[glorydays]

Roberts is not on a winning team right now, he is on another last place team.

If you want him to comeback, it might help for him to be able to look around the lockerroom, and see the talent that surrounds him... that he can move forward with.

He would be devistated for Millar to sit on the bench... Millar who is not going to be back in 2009? That is just illogical.

But you want him to give up hope of a winning team this year! And where is the talent that you want to replace?? Reimold - he's going to get excited and do flips around the locker room about Reimold! Come on now... think, please!

And yes - if he comes in and Millar and his home runs/rbi's and leadership is on the bench - it will be devasting...

[J.D.]

I am glad I am out of touch with the common fan… most fans are clueless of what matters.

Sorry, baseball is a business… that is exactly what Kevin should be told…. If you can’t see that then fine, whatever….

I am asking them to get rid of Payton, bench Millar, and Hernandez…. Considering none of the 3 will be on the 2009 Orioles, and everyone in that clubhouse knows it… you are the one stretching to think it would hurt the psyche of the O’s.

If the Organization thinks that winning games based off the contributions of players like Millar matters, they are as clueless as the common fan.

And you're completely and utterly stretching it beyond the realm of accuracy to think that it would have zero effect on the way that this team plays.

Baseball is a business. It's a business centered around winning. If you bench players this year for kids that have never seen major league pitching, you're giving up on winning this year. You're hurting your business.

The common fan is clueless now? That's funny. They're the bulk of people paying money to attend baseball games. But they're clueless. Play the elitist role much?

Just because most fans disagree with you, they're clueless? Pfft. That must be a fun stance to get to take.

[J.D.]

I never said fans would come flocking back because you got younger… I said I think you could appeal to people by saying here are some players who might be part of our future… instead of saying, we are in last place again, come watch some players who won’t be part of our team next year.

Millar to the bench, Payton released or traded, and Hernandez to the bench is not going to throw the roster into turmoil…

Again, asking a team that is in last place to get younger, and more talented through internal youth – should not be that much to ask for.

Again, what young pitchers are you talking about… the O’s have exactly two (maybe 3) young pitchers on the roster of any consequence…. Olson, Johnson, and maybe Bierd.

Winning games based on the contributions of players who won’t be here next year, is worth less than possibly losing games with players that can be here, and contributing next year…

Oh. Guthrie doesn't have any consequence? Good to know that one.

[J.D.]

Most fans are clueless morons… most people in general are clueless morons…

When I worked in the Box Office for the O’s at the Warehouse, I had fans ask me where the Warehouse was…

Right, baseball is a business… it is not good business to waist the commodity of time on players that can’t help you going forward.

It is the equivalent of giving the big project to the guy or gal that has already given 2 weeks notice…

Wieters is better than Hernandez… Reimold is likely every bit as good as Millar… the pitching staff I want is far superior to the pitching staff they have….

I’m not the one giving up on winning games this year, the O’s are with the roster they continue to field.

And posts like this pretty much point out why there's no point in debating anyone with you.

People are morons. Especially if they don't want to see every veteran get benched. Check.

Saying that players in AA that have never seen big league pitching are locks to step in and duplicate or exceed performance by players in the bigs (I agree about Ramon, but you're severely undervaluing Millar's contribution). Check.

It's not fun debating anything with someone that has no problem calling a large chunk of people morons. You're pretty much saying that you're superior to the "common fan." Personally, I don't think you have any right whatsoever to say that. I find that incredibly arrogant. That's a completely ridiculous assertion. Rather than sink to that level with you, I'm going to just walk from this argument. Because it'd be all to easy for me to say "You're wrong. Period."

When you decide to step down from that pedestal you're on, perhaps we can continue the discussion. Otherwise, I'll just have to be sure to ignore the 20 threads that I'm certain will be coming down the pipe about how every veteran needs to be benched, and the outrage that will follow when they're not.

[J.D.]

Guthrie is a great pitcher, one of my favorite players ever... but he is not young...

So what? What's your point? He's not old, either.

[glorydays]

I never said fans would come flocking back because you got younger… I said I think you could appeal to people by saying here are some players who might be part of our future… instead of saying, we are in last place again, come watch some players who won’t be part of our team next year.

Millar to the bench, Payton released or traded, and Hernandez to the bench is not going to throw the roster into turmoil…

Again, asking a team that is in last place to get younger, and more talented through internal youth – should not be that much to ask for.

Again, what young pitchers are you talking about… the O’s have exactly two (maybe 3) young pitchers on the roster of any consequence…. Olson, Johnson, and maybe Bierd.

Winning games based on the contributions of players who won’t be here next year, is worth less than possibly losing games with players that can be here, and contributing next year…

As I just said in the other thread, it seems to me that the O’s would be appealing to a much larger audience if they said come look at the players that can actually be part of the team going forward.

1 - Here is a quote you made just minutes ago. Much larger audience = flocking to the yard or is it another wins do not = wins?

2 - I just can't agree that the talent that we have in the minors is better. And believe it or not I want to see Reimold play in the majors - but I'm not going to throw a tissy fit if its not tommorrow, especially if it is potentially weakening another part of the game that will impact the development of other younger players. BTW - you asked for what young pitchers - well, I don't just look at the players on the roster now, but those who have been and will be in the coming weeks.

3 - Again - I can't believe it is worthless for these young players to win games in any year... if for no other reason that they need to learn how to win (or lose).

[Boca Bird]

Winning games from efforts of players who won’t help you tomorrow, is meaningless.

What I love about your arguments is you unintentionally always make the point for me.

You just stated that I can’t expect the team I want to have a better chance of success, because I would be relying on the efforts of players who have not experienced the bigs.

Your obvious point being that the bigs is an adjustment…. Of course the Majors are an adjustment…. So why would you spend the rest of 2008 giving playing time to the players that will definitively not be part of your roster going forward, vs the players who might …. ???

You take advantage of being on a losing team with no expectations, and you give them as much playing time as possible… so they are that much better prepared to help you going forward…

And yes, I do think we would have a better chance of achieving a 500 record with the team I want vs the team currently comprised.

You are 1000% right in your arguments. In another lost, hopeless, and meaningless season, the O's should be playing their youngsters. (It seems to work out well for the Marlins)

10 yrs of irrelevance and the O's are still stuck on the same losing treadmill, never making any progress. 36 yr olds have no place on a "rebuilding" team

Its a complete joke,but it ain't rebuilding

[J.D.]

Most average/common fans are not members of boards like OH... I respect the opinions of posters here... even those like yourself that I disagree with...

Regarding the common fans that make up the core audience for the O's... they are morons, and I am superior... and so are 95% of the other 6000+ members of OH including yourself.

I'm not superior to any other fan. I may know more/different things, see things in a different way, and be extremely passionate. But that doesn't make superior to other people. There are probably people that know just as much as I do and you do in other areas. There are probably people that are just as passionate as you and I. And they don't have the time or energy to go posting around on a message board.

I respect your opinions that I disagree with. I do NOT respect your stating that you're superior to other fans. And I don't respect you calling people that you do not know and have never met "morons."

That's absolutely indefensible. Good day.

[TommyD4207]

I'm not superior to any other fan. I may know more/different things, see things in a different way, and be extremely passionate. But that doesn't make superior to other people. There are probably people that know just as much as I do and you do in other areas. There are probably people that are just as passionate as you and I. And they don't have the time or energy to go posting around on a message board.

I respect your opinions that I disagree with. I do NOT respect your stating that you're superior to other fans. And I don't respect you calling people that you do not know and have never met "morons."

That's absolutely indefensible. Good day.

Great post man, you win with class. To say outright that you are superior to a large mass of people is just plain arrogant and elitist. I love this board, but there are absolutely people out there that know a ton about baseball that aren't on this board. I would love to have every Orioles fan here, but such is life.

[glorydays]

Saying I think they would be appealing to a larger audience is not the equivalent to saying the fans would be flocking in... there is a discernable difference...

Please explain...

We agree mostly on your 3rd point.. where we disagree is the conclusion that this team is actually comprised of young players...

I'm not arguing that this team is young... I'm saying that these older players are having a positive impact on the development of the younger players and IMO you cannot just dismiss that.

[TommyD4207]

If you had 33,000 fans there tonight... how many of them could name the starting lineup?

I would say maybe 10,000.... how many of that 10,000 know what OPS is?

I would say maybe 1,000...... how many of that group could have a further dialogue about the organization?

This shows that you really are out of touch with the common fan. Spend more time initiating conversation with people and less time making assumptions and judgments.

[glorydays]

Myself, and my friends would be interested in going to more games with the roster I suggested... and I think it would be appeal to a larger audience... but that does not mean I think 1000s would suddenly flock to OPACY.

Yes, and my point is there are not many younger players here for any vets to have a postive impact on.

But how many younger players do there need to be? If one young player gets better because of the leadership of a vet - isn't that enough?

It goes back to my unanswered question - when do we start counting wins? Do all the vets need to be off the roster?

[McNulty]

I'm not superior to any other fan. I may know more/different things, see things in a different way, and be extremely passionate. But that doesn't make superior to other people. There are probably people that know just as much as I do and you do in other areas. There are probably people that are just as passionate as you and I. And they don't have the time or energy to go posting around on a message board.

I respect your opinions that I disagree with. I do NOT respect your stating that you're superior to other fans. And I don't respect you calling people that you do not know and have never met "morons."

That's absolutely indefensible. Good day.

Maybe if you annointed yourself one of the 16 best posters on this board you'd feel superior to "the common fan" too.

Great post my man. I'd rep you if I could.

[J.D.]

Maybe if you annointed yourself one of the 16 best posters on this board you'd feel superior to "the common fan" too.

Great post my man. I'd rep you if I could.

Thanks, man. At least I have a good signature quote now.

[McNulty]

I did not select myself as one of the 16 best posters on this board... after a few said I should be included as one of the top 64, I did include myself...

Yes, I do have enough ego to believe I belong in any discussion of best posters.... yes I do believe there are some extremely intelligent discussions, and posters here.....

There are great fans here, on Birds in the Belfrey, on the Scout site, on the Sun board, and even fans that do not post anywhere... but the larger fan-base as a whole is clueless....

My fault. One of the best 20.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1398619&postcount=28