Duquette's trade history

[LTO's]

39 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Sort of like the Ray trading Beckham to the Orioles for Tobias Myers two years ago. 

Of the many baffling moves Duquette made that tanked our farm system, this is one that still makes the least amount of sense to me.

[Philip]

15 minutes ago, LTO's said:

Of the many baffling moves Duquette made that tanked our farm system, this is one that still makes the least amount of sense to me.

Boy there’s a lot of competition for the top spot on that list.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

26 minutes ago, LTO's said:

Of the many baffling moves Duquette made that tanked our farm system, this is one that still makes the least amount of sense to me.

But hey Beckham was on fire the first 4 weeks of his Orioles tenure before he turned back into Tim Beckham. 

[TINSTAAPP]

1 hour ago, LTO's said:

Of the many baffling moves Duquette made that tanked our farm system, this is one that still makes the least amount of sense to me.

I would say the Davies for Parra deal was a lot worse. 

[wildcard]

Every GM acquires players that do not work out.   They should not be judged by those players.  They should be judged by the good trades and whether they can put a team together that wins.

Judge Dan Duquette on Chen, Miguel Gonzalez, Brach, McLouth, Hammel, Cruz, Young, Castillo, Seth Smith and Bleier.  I am pretty happy with the five years between 2012 and the end of 2016.   Winning more games than anyone in the AL for those years probably does not happen without Dan.    

[Greg Pappas]

29 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Every GM acquires players that do not work out.   They should not be judged by those players.  They should be judged by the good trades and whether they can put a team together that wins.

Judge Dan Duquette on Chen, Miguel Gonzalez, Brach, McLouth, Hammel, Cruz, Young, Castillo, Seth Smith and Bleier.  I am pretty happy with the five years between 2012 and the end of 2016.   Winning more games than anyone in the AL for those years probably does not happen without Dan.    

A GM should be judged by the totality of the work they did... the good AND the bad. 

[Philip]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Every GM acquires players that do not work out.   They should not be judged by those players.  They should be judged by the good trades and whether they can put a team together that wins.

Judge Dan Duquette on Chen, Miguel Gonzalez, Brach, McLouth, Hammel, Cruz, Young, Castillo, Seth Smith and Bleier.  I am pretty happy with the five years between 2012 and the end of 2016.   Winning more games than anyone in the AL for those years probably does not happen without Dan.    

I don't disagree, but it can be argued that the negative effects of the stupid moves outweighs the beneficial effects of the good or lucky moves. And there’s a big diff between “logical move that doesn’t work out” and “stupid” 

[LTO's]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Every GM acquires players that do not work out.   They should not be judged by those players.  They should be judged by the good trades and whether they can put a team together that wins.

Judge Dan Duquette on Chen, Miguel Gonzalez, Brach, McLouth, Hammel, Cruz, Young, Castillo, Seth Smith and Bleier.  I am pretty happy with the five years between 2012 and the end of 2016.   Winning more games than anyone in the AL for those years probably does not happen without Dan.    

That is such an incomplete way of looking at it. Duquette could've made those moves and not left Elias with the worst farm system in baseball. Dan was able to extract a certain degree of success out of less than ideal circumstances but a lot of the good players from 2012-2016 came from the previous regime and he made a fair share of damaging moves. You don't have back to back sub 50 win seasons unless you're GM royally screwed up establishing a useful talent pipeline/player development program. Sure, Peter, Buck and Brady are also to blame but the Duquette apologia here is going way too far. 

Seth Smith was not a worthwhile pickup so it's strange you'd include him. For all those moves you mentioned, you have Travis Snider, JJ Hardy extension (40 mil for 1.7 WAR), Yovani Gallardo, Alex Cobb, Parra trade, Beckham trade (2017 deadline in general was god awful), 2014 draft, last year's trades and of course Ubaldo. We'll never know for sure how involved Dan was in the Davis deal and all the rumors I've read absolve him of it so i'll give him a reprieve there but it's incomprehensible to ignore all his failures and just acknowledge the good moves he made. 

Edited July 17, 2019 by LTO's

[Luke-OH]

The context to the 2017 deadline was that DD wasn’t allowed to sell.

[weams]

2 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

The context to the 2017 deadline was that DD wasn’t allowed to sell.

Correct. And he was required to buy several other times. 

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, LTO's said:

That is such an incomplete way of looking at it. Duquette could've made those moves and not left Elias with the worst farm system in baseball. Dan was able to extract a certain degree of success out of less than ideal circumstances but a lot of the good players from 2012-2016 came from the previous regime and he made a fair share of damaging moves. You don't have back to back sub 50 win seasons unless you're GM royally screwed up establishing a useful talent pipeline/player development program. Sure, Peter, Buck and Brady are also to blame but the Duquette apologia here is going way too far. 

Seth Smith was not a worthwhile pickup so it's strange you'd include him. For all those moves you mentioned, you have Travis Snider, JJ Hardy extension (40 mil for 1.7 WAR), Yovani Gallardo, Alex Cobb, Parra trade, Beckham trade (2017 deadline in general was god awful), 2014 draft, last year's trades and of course Ubaldo. We'll never know for sure how involved Dan was in the Davis deal and all the rumors I've read absolve him of it so i'll give him a reprieve there but it's incomprehensible to ignore all his failures and just acknowledge the good moves he made. 

I would never say that Dan didn't make his share of bad moves.  Every GM does.  But that should not be the focus of his time in Baltimore.  The O's flounder for 14 years before Dan began running Baseball Operations.   Then for 5 years the O's won more than any team in the AL.   You can't take that away from him and if you do your creditability just went to zero.

MacPhail tried and tried to put a pitching staff together and win but could not.  Dan did in his first season he was with the O's and it lasted for five years.    

Sure Dan inherited players from MacPhail.   But he recognized their abilities and add to them to make a winning teams.  That is a GM's job and he did it well. He also convinced Peter to spend like never before.

As far as winning 50 games in back to back years, wake up and smell the coffee.  Its is happening for several reasons. Several of which Dan had little or no control over.

1) Elias rebuild philosophy is to tear the team down.  Get high draft choices and then build it up. The Astros model.   That approach avoid spend money on the current team and focuses on the future.   That approach has been proven to lose for several years in the beginning.

2) Because the O's won so many games for so many years in a row they drafted low.   That hurt the farm system. The Astros GM was recently asked about last June's draft.  He said its not like drafting 1:1.

 Note:  Several of the players that are now in the O's farm system and projected to be a part of the future were drafted or acquired under Dan.  

3) Some of Dan's players stopped being productive far too early.   Tillman was the backbone of the rotation and then at 29 he was done.  Jones slowed down defensively and finally offensively.  Players were getting old and the lack on high draft choice meant their were not draft choices to fill in.

4) Major League Baseball is not a fair  game for the teams that aren't in the biggest markets.  That means the O's and other teams like them don't have the dollars to compete with the big market team on spending.    So they have to find ways to come up with a group of players to win with for a while and then lose for a while to reload.  If they don't they are always in the middle and rarely win anything. 

Dan did very well for the O's for a five year period.   Now its time to reload.

[Frobby]

I don’t agree with the notion that you look only at DD’s good moves and disregard the bad ones.    That’s like judging how you did in Vegas by counting up how much you made on the bets you won and not looking at the bets you lost.   

[Can_of_corn]

I forget do they give out a pennant for best record in the AL 2012-2016?

Think it is going to go on Manny's HoF plaque?  "He helped lead the Orioles to the best record in the AL over a five year period."

[VaBird1]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I forget do they give out a pennant for best record in the AL 2012-2016?

Think it is going to go on Manny's HoF plaque?  "He helped lead the Orioles to the best record in the AL over a five year period."

Maybe it should.  Five years is a long period of a career.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I forget do they give out a pennant for best record in the AL 2012-2016?

Think it is going to go on Manny's HoF plaque?  "He helped lead the Orioles to the best record in the AL over a five year period."