Cost Cutting Measures

[Can_of_corn]

20 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

Yes, that's how I understand it. 

If MASN and the Orioles baseball team are being run as separate entities, these would actually increase the TV money the team gets. 

But the Angelos family would get substantially less.

 

[TonySoprano]

10 hours ago, ThomasTomasz said:

I know Trumbo comes off the books after this season, and they don't have to worry about Cashner's option vesting.  Villar could be out because his arbitration number might go too high.  I wouldnt expect any of that payroll to be replaced.   

Baseball reference projects next year's payroll at $88.7M  
https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/baltimore-orioles-salaries-and-contracts.shtml

Mancini, Bleier, Alberto and Castro go into arbitration along with Bundy, Villar, Givens...over $40M estimated in arbitration cases.   Cobb and Davis are guaranteed $37-38 (42%) of the estimated 2020 payroll whether they play or not.  In the case of Cobb, there still remains hope that he'll have some value. 
Davis....

[Luke-OH]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

But the Angelos family would get substantially less.

As a fan of the team, is there really a reason to be concerned with the Angelos family's profits?

[Going Underground]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

Sorry, I didn't read what you wrote closely enough.  I never saw anything saying they were only try to sell off the Nationals part of MASN.  I'm not sure how that would fix any problems.  What I remember seeing was that they were trying to get the whole of MASN sold to a third party.

I have read and heard so many things about the MASN deals and disputes.Even the reporters admit the MASN setup and who decided what made it very complicated.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Luke-OH said:

As a fan of the team, is there really a reason to be concerned with the Angelos family's profits?

Maybe?

It is theoretically possible that since the Angelos family owns both that them making more money would lead to them investing more in the club.

Remember not only does the family get more gross income coming in, the MASN profits aren't subject to revenue sharing.

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm not sure why you repeated yourself.

 

So you could hear me say it again

[Roll Tide]

11 hours ago, ThomasTomasz said:

I looked up payrolls for a post in a forum a few years ago and during that timeframe you mention, the Orioles payroll actually was top 10-12 at least 75% of the time.  Of course, outside of the big spending years for Tejada and others, the team spent a ton of money on average relievers just to say they did something.  Part of this rebuild and what I like is trying to cut as much payroll as possible, and reinvest that money into other departments, as well as banking it for future years when the club is competitive.   

I know Trumbo comes off the books after this season, and they don't have to worry about Cashner's option vesting.  Villar could be out because his arbitration number might go too high.  I wouldnt expect any of that payroll to be replaced.   

Again ...those of you who think Villar will be nontendered under any circumstances are dreaming. I think there little chance he's traded unless Elias gets a good return. Meaning he's not going to be dealt for a couple Dominican teenagers.

[backwardsk]

1 hour ago, TonySoprano said:

Baseball reference projects next year's payroll at $88.7M  
https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/baltimore-orioles-salaries-and-contracts.shtml

Mancini, Bleier, Alberto and Castro go into arbitration along with Bundy, Villar, Givens...over $40M estimated in arbitration cases.   Cobb and Davis are guaranteed $37-38 (42%) of the estimated 2020 payroll whether they play or not.  In the case of Cobb, there still remains hope that he'll have some value. 
Davis....

I have a hard time believing those seven will combine for $40M in arbitration with four of them Arb 1.  Givens and Bundy made a shade less than $5M combined.  I can’t see Bleier and Castro making more.

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, Luke-OH said:

As a fan of the team, is there really a reason to be concerned with the Angelos family's profits?

One would hope that the profits from MASN are being invested in the Orioles.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

One would hope that the profits from MASN are being invested in the Orioles.

One would hope that.

Last I heard (not that I am in the loop) the law firm wasn't doing so well.  I fully expect investors to expect a healthy ROI pre-sale.

[Luke-OH]

7 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

One would hope that the profits from MASN are being invested in the Orioles.

I wouldn't expect that, it'd make sense to run them as two separate profitable businesses. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Luke-OH said:

I wouldn't expect that, it'd make sense to run them as two separate profitable businesses. 

I don't expect it, but I do hope that would be the case.  At least in part.

[Frobby]

5 hours ago, Going Underground said:

Will MASN according to one of the  disputes with the Nationals made $148 million in revenue a few years back.Of course they have rights fees split of $35 million to each team.This might change because of the ruling.Plus used to be subject to revenue sharing of 34%.But MASN is not owned by the Orioles.Angelos and  maybe a few minority owners .So who knows  what the revenue number might entsil. But Angelos would have to sell MASN if he sold the team. This is revenue and not profit after expenses. 

I’m pretty sure MASN revenue is well above $148 mm.    Those numbers were disclosed in the first MASN arbitration decision and I don’t remember them exactly but I think it was $160 mm increasing to about $200 mm projected over the five years covered by the dispute.   

4 hours ago, jtm said:

I’m getting so lost in this thread.  Can someone clarify once and for all?  I thought the MASN arbitration ruling and court decision affirming it merely affirmed that the formula used to determine revenue payments was proper.  It was a formula the Os probably favored, but was still more money than they wanted to pay out annually.  However, the MASN agreement dictates that both teams shall receive equal amounts of annual revenue, and the Orioles are majority owners of MASN which is a percentage that decreases annually until the split reaches 67% for the Os, and 34% for the Nats.  Neither of those provisions were  changed with this decision either.  So the issue is MASN (whose majority owner is the Os) has to pay withheld revenues since 2012.  Correct?  

The arbitration panel determined the rights fees by two different methods, neither of which was exactly what either team wanted.   The results of the two methods were very close, so the panel just took the average of the two (about $60 mm/yr).     The court found the panel’s ruling was within it’s authority and that MASN’s various bias arguments were unfounded.    

3 hours ago, Going Underground said:

All the articles I have read said they are required to sell the Orioles and MASN  together.Not sure if that was negotiated when the Expos moved and MLB put it in their since he was owning a much bigger percentage of the regional network.Maybe did not wanting Angelo's owning two teams regional networks if not at least owning a team.Would be fun watching him fighting with the Nationals and whoever would end up owning the Orioles. 

I don’t know of any requirement that the O’s and the majority interest in MASN must be sold together.    It is probably logical that they would be, whether or not required.    

[DrungoHazewood]

5 hours ago, backwardsk said:

I have a hard time believing those seven will combine for $40M in arbitration with four of them Arb 1.  Givens and Bundy made a shade less than $5M combined.  I can’t see Bleier and Castro making more.

That was exactly my thought.  They're going to non-tender Bleier, Alberto is going to get a million or so, Mancini is 1st year arb, Sucre is going to be non-tendered.  Yes, Villar, Bundy, and Mancini might pull in $12-15 between them, but the rest certainly aren't going to get $10M combined.  I think bb-ref's arb estimate is high by at least $20M.  Which means the payroll might be under $70M.

[Satyr3206]

16 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

As a fan of the team, is there really a reason to be concerned with the Angelos family's profits?

Actually yes. As with any business if it isn't making a profit problems occur. Some significant, some not.