BJ Surhoff Is Angry

[ThomasTomasz]

Just now, wildbillhiccup said:

The bigger question is how Brady has dodged the firing bullet. It's pretty amazing when you think about it and the amount of turnover within the organization within the last year. 

He's in the right position on the bus, to put it a way that I relate to my team.  He's essentially a consultant on nutrition and strength and conditioning.  From what I've heard, they've got him interviewing and making hiring decisions on those S&C people, and I completely trust Anderson to handle those things.  He needed to have a drawn out role, and needed to be out of baseball operations, and Elias made that happen.  I'm glad he's able to use Anderson for what he does well, and that ownership didn't override the decision and keep him as a top executive.  

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

The bigger question is how Brady has dodged the firing bullet. It's pretty amazing when you think about it and the amount of turnover within the organization within the last year. 

He wasn't at the Why Not reunion right?

[wildbillhiccup]

2 minutes ago, ThomasTomasz said:

He's in the right position on the bus, to put it a way that I relate to my team.  He's essentially a consultant on nutrition and strength and conditioning.  From what I've heard, they've got him interviewing and making hiring decisions on those S&C people, and I completely trust Anderson to handle those things.  He needed to have a drawn out role, and needed to be out of baseball operations, and Elias made that happen.  I'm glad he's able to use Anderson for what he does well, and that ownership didn't override the decision and keep him as a top executive.  

I'm fine with that as long as he's full committed to staying in his lane. 

[wildbillhiccup]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

He wasn't at the Why Not reunion right?

I don' think so. 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I don' think so. 

I thought it was telling.

Not like he was too busy.

[atomic]

2 hours ago, mdbdotcom said:

I wonder how many sources Connolly lost with this shakeup. 

I am not sure why he would lose sources.  He interviewed Surhoff and printed what he said. He also put out what Elias said.   I am not sure why anyone would have a problem with the article as quoted in this thread. 

[24fps]

36 minutes ago, atomic said:

I am not sure why he would lose sources.  He interviewed Surhoff and printed what he said. He also put out what Elias said.   I am not sure why anyone would have a problem with the article as quoted in this thread. 

Connolly's value as an Orioles beat reporter is directly correlated with the depth of his knowledge of the Orioles system top to bottom.  That means a lot of contact with everyone inside the Orioles organization that he can develop a relationship with.  Do you believe everything some PR flak wants you to hear?  I hope not.  I think you're better served if there's an interpreter out there working for a more balanced understanding.

I'm not saying I completely agree with Connolly's current column, but if he didn't lose a lot of sources in the current shakeup then it would be an serious indictment of his abilities.

[hoosiers]

3 hours ago, survivedc said:

Bunch of people dumping on BJ. I’d rather have former O’s than not. Getting rid of a guy that has spent 15+ years with the .org is different than firing a random scout. 

Would love for Elias to succeed. Would esp love him to succeed trying to keep old O’s involved as much as possible.

Do people understand how bass ackwards our front office has been for 20 years?  PA cronies and old timers keeping their jobs long past any good they have done.

Do people understand how our front office compared to others in the division and in baseball?

How poor our analytics group has been compared others in the division and in baseball?

I have said several times that folks are getting a front row seat to observing a handful of baseball executives turn our front office from among the very worst in baseball to something that will likely be a top 10 front office?  In the process, they are transforming the organization from how we draft, to how we play and develop, to how we prepare.  Enjoy it.  Learn from it.  It is not going to happen "trying to keep old Os involved as much as possible".

[atomic]

32 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Connolly's value as an Orioles beat reporter is directly correlated with the depth of his knowledge of the Orioles system top to bottom.  That means a lot of contact with everyone inside the Orioles organization that he can develop a relationship with.  Do you believe everything some PR flak wants you to hear?  I hope not.  I think you're better served if there's an interpreter out there working for a more balanced understanding.

I'm not saying I completely agree with Connolly's current column, but if he didn't lose a lot of sources in the current shakeup then it would be an serious indictment of his abilities.

Oh sorry I thought that the post I was quoting that Connolly would lose sources because of what he has written.  When instead it was referring to him losing sources due to them being fired. I don't know that Surhoff was providing him any useful information. 

I don't think any of us know whether Surhoff was a useful contributor to the Orioles development system and people just seem to  making their opinions base on pre-conceived notions. 

[24fps]

11 minutes ago, atomic said:

Oh sorry I thought that the post I was quoting that Connolly would lose sources because of what he has written.  When instead it was referring to him losing sources due to them being fired. I don't know that Surhoff was providing him any useful information. 

I don't think any of us know whether Surhoff was a useful contributor to the Orioles development system and people just seem to  making their opinions base on pre-conceived notions. 

Not all of the people who lost their jobs were fired.  My impression from what I've read is that most of them simply didn't have their contracts renewed which is categorically very different.

We might not know with certainty how useful Surhoff was as a contributor to the Orioles' development system, but we can safely conclude that it wasn't useful enough to persuade Elias to keep him on - and that doesn't require any preconcieved notions from those of us watching from the outside.

[Luke-OH]

 

23 minutes ago, atomic said:

I don't think any of us know whether Surhoff was a useful contributor to the Orioles development system and people just seem to  making their opinions base on pre-conceived notions. 

That’s correct, but it really doesn’t matter at all how good he was.

Even if he was amazing, it’d be like the usefulness of having a Michelin Star chef as a line cook. Not making the best use of his/her abilities at best and likely distracting from the overall process.

[survivedc]

2 hours ago, hoosiers said:

Do people understand how bass ackwards our front office has been for 20 years?  PA cronies and old timers keeping their jobs long past any good they have done.

Do people understand how our front office compared to others in the division and in baseball?

How poor our analytics group has been compared others in the division and in baseball?

I have said several times that folks are getting a front row seat to observing a handful of baseball executives turn our front office from among the very worst in baseball to something that will likely be a top 10 front office?  In the process, they are transforming the organization from how we draft, to how we play and develop, to how we prepare.  Enjoy it.  Learn from it.  It is not going to happen "trying to keep old Os involved as much as possible".

Obviously not opposed to a front office turn around which is long over due. Don’t think a successful FO and not having old players involved is mutually exclusive.

I think the whole “old players don’t and will never buy into analytics” is somewhat overblown. There is clearly enormous value to what analytics can tell us but there is also enormous value to having that information presented and changes made by people that have succeeded as players in the past IMO. Sig and Mike understand that I assume, Sig spent a season on a minor league bench. 

Not going to apologize for thinking it’s unfortunate that someone who has spent over a decade with the organization was let go. I wish there could have been a way he could have been integrated into the new system.

[Sessh]

On 9/22/2019 at 1:07 AM, Moose Milligan said:

This is very much like the Redskins.  Everything is a call-back to the glory years of the Gibbs-era 80s.  

It's what teams that haven't done much (if anything) in recent memory do...tug on the heartstrings of those who are old enough to remember the good times.  And if you're too young to remember those days, they try to paint a picture of what it COULD be like.  To your point it is a taunt of sorts, for sure.

I'm not sure what Surhoff expected here.  To draw another football comparison, does anyone here watch Hard Knocks?  It's practically the same thing every year when they cut players, they have an assistant coach find the guys they're going to cut and they say...."Coach wants to see you, bring your playbook."

The player knows what's coming.  Hangs his head, grabs his playbook and goes towards the head coaches office.

The head coach goes..."Hey, we've made a decision to release you and move in a different direction today.  Thank you for your hard work, we appreciate it."

"Ok, thank you."

Maybe, MAYBE they talk for a minute about an area of improvement that needs to be addressed on the players side so he knows what he needs to work on so he can stick with another team.  If not, they shake hands, player gets up, leaves, packs his things and he's gone.  From the time the assistant coach gets him to the time he's in the parking lot, it looks like the whole thing takes less than 10 minutes.

And that's for a guy who's fighting for his career.  That's a guy who's dying for a shot at professional football.  That's a guy who is showing up to the facility every day, going through drills, spending time in the film room, playing in preseason games and getting to know his coaches and fellow players.  That's what Hard Knocks is mostly about, the journey of guys who are trying to fight and find a way to make the roster. 

Every single one of those guys that gets cut on Hard Knocks spends more time with their coaching staff than Surhoff did with Elias.  And every single one of those guys gets cut in the blink of an eye with a handshake and a thank you.

Surhoff had an ENTIRE YEAR to figure out what was going on.  I read the whole article during my morning constitutional today, it was terrible.  Ruined the whole thing. 

(FYI, @TonySoprano I know you've been campaigning for The Athletic for awhile now...I got a free year of The Athletic because I subscribed to Joe Posnanski's blog.  And Posnanski got picked up by The Athletic a few weeks ago so he gave his subscribers a free year to The Athletic.  So far, it's been pretty good stuff and I like that it's ad free.  I doubt I'll remember in September of 2020 to cancel it before they bill my card for the next year.  But they do have Ken Rosenthal on staff so I won't mind too much when I see that charge hit my account.)

Here's some of the whining that made me roll my eyes:

Um, what?

My take on Surhoff's sour grapes (make no mistake, he says it's not sour grapes and then proceeds to show us he's a professional vinter) is that he wanted Elias to reach out and kiss his ass from day 1.  Surhoff spent an entire year doing his part time job and sitting by the phone waiting for Elias to call him.

Did it ever dawn on Surhoff to reach out to Elias?  Did Connolly even bother to ask?

Did Surhoff ever stop to think, "Hey, the Orioles just hired this new guy, he's analytics driven, he's been successful in Houston and...maybe I should call him to introduce myself, tell him that I really like working here and that I want to meet with him to learn everything they're doing and SHOW that I'm adaptable?"

Communication is a two way street.  "Present it to us....show it to me....I'll still talk to people if they reach out..."

Not ONCE did he say anything about reaching out to them.  All Surhoff wanted was for the new sheriff in town to call him and be like "Hey, you were the #1 draft pick in '85 right?  You had a great career!  Wow, I will really value your insights!  35 years in pro ball, I'm barely over 35 years old myself!  Hey, let's do lunch at Dempsey's next week and you can tell me about everything you know!" 

Not once in this whole blathering article did Surhoff ever say anything about "Yeah, I called Elias, like, 50 times to reach out and show that I want to be a part of his vision and a part of what he's doing...and he never got back to me."  I'd be more sympathetic and understanding then.

You know, it's funny.  You hear ballplayers, athletes, coaches across all sports talk about being aggressive, having to work for things, "first one in, last one to leave," learning new things, different approaches, blah blah blah...all the old cliches that have been worn out over the years about hard work, dedication, etc...which are cliches because they've been repeated so often but are true in practice.   

And for a guy like Surhoff to act like once you hang 'em up, the aggressiveness, the having to work for things doesn't matter anymore because you had a great career and you're kind of a someone in team history and that things and people who ARE NOW YOUR BOSS should come to you is completely naive.  Especially for a part time role that's obviously isn't crucial to the team's success moving forward, the idea that Elias had to reach out and talk to him is asinine.  

Again, did he reach out?  Did he ever reach out to Elias to make a case for himself?  Was he proactive in showing Elias that he did make a difference, that he did help out?

Baseball is a game of adjustments.  We hear it all the time on the broadcasts.  A guy gets called up from the minors, hammers big league pitching for his first few weeks and then the book gets out on him, the league makes adjustments.  So he needs to see if he can make adjustments back.  

BJ Surhoff failed to make adjustments in his plate approach to life.  He sat back and was looking for fastballs that he could drive and got a steady dose of off-speed stuff and breaking balls that he couldn't handle and grounded out weakly to the opposite side.  And then proceeded to cry Paul O'Neill style on his way back to the dugout about how the pitcher was unfair to him.

BJ Surhoff has left the chat room...

[Ruzious]

On ‎9‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 6:12 PM, Tony-OH said:

Here's what I don't get, how do you show empathy when you fire someone? Elias literally called him. He didn't ignore him or have an underling call, he called him and told them they were going in a different direction.

I've had to fire somebody before and guess what, they didn't like me much afterwards. Who likes to get fired? 

Connolly is losing all of his guys who have talked to him for years, so of course he's going to provide their sides. For me personally, I know some of these people and I feel bad that they've lost their jobs, but let's face it, this is a business where if you work for a team for more than 10 years it's a rarity.

Personally, outside of the ambassador roles that Brooks and Eddie are in, I could care less whether the new instructors/scouts have an Orioles background or not? I want the best people in the positions to make the organization better.

Yes, this seems to be the "nerd" takeover of the long term baseball guys, I get why they are upset, but the game changes as the technology and information available changes. That doesn't mean the old baseball guys weren't good baseball men during their time, but times are changing.

Getting into the professional baseball world of coaching or scouting used to be about who you knew or who you were related to. It was hard to get in of you were outside the sphere. Now, the sphere is the guys with the big degrees or guys working with baseball technology.

Take my case. When I was in my 30s I had a couple of inquiries on whether I wanted to scout but I didn't want to get out of the Army with less then 8 years to go until "retirement". I ended up Associate scouting unofficially for the Orioles (ended up getting an offer to scout for the Mets during this time). When I "retired" from the Army I ended up associate scouting for the Texas Rangers (The only player I brought my scout to come see in Maryland was Josh Hader) and then when my scout moved to another position he recommended me for his position and asked me if I wanted to interview. At the time though, my son was wrestling year 'round and I didn't want to miss things so I respectfully declined.

Years later when he was done wrestling, I thought I'd see if I could get back in but when I got bites, the new area scouts were young guys who must've looked at me as some old school guy (I'm the furthest thing from because I love technology) with no professional baseball playing experience so apparently my free services were not needed.

Now, you look at the guys getting hired and I realize that my resume is not going to compete. At almost 50 I'm considered old and despite my many experiences I realize that my desire to work in professional baseball is not going to be reality. Honestly, with the way things are going and the way people are being let go left and right, it's probably for the best.

But back to the guys getting fired, it sucks for them because even with their extensive baseball resumes less and less opportunities are available to them and certainly not at the salaries they were once making.

At the end of the day though, the results will speak volumes. If Elias turns this franchise around and the team is competing year in and year out, no one is going to care about whether an instructor has an Orioles background or not or whether they are somebody they heard of or some super nerd from MIT who came up with an advantage through analytics or technology.

Like they always say. Just win baby and all will be well for fans.

That's why I said I don't know whether or not Elias should have handled things better.   I don't think anything I said was particularly controversial.   

[sportsfan8703]

1 hour ago, Ruzious said:

That's why I said I don't know whether or not Elias should have handled things better.   I don't think anything I said was particularly controversial.   

These athletes want so much when they’re playing, then they get a sort of “real job”, and want the guy in charge of a huge organization to give them a personal call. Surhoff is a little out of touch. Sorry your cushy consulting gig got taken away. Welcome to the real world.