O's Dilemma with Villar

[Philip]

5 hours ago, Hallas said:

Chris Davis had 2 fantastic years and 1 pretty good year, so I'm not sure he belongs in the discussion of one-season wonders. 

I didn’t intend to suggest Davis was a one-year wonder, but he got his massive contract after his career year, When it was unlikely that he would repeat it, And he had so many other problems. Villar is much more versatile, but speed is his best asset.

[Philip]

4 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

55 ain’t so bad.

Ummmmyesitis.

[sportsfan8703]

6 hours ago, Philip said:

Ummmmyesitis.

Basically the main ways we can acquire talent in the next 2-3 years is via the draft and selling high on players. So we want the best draft position possible. 

To me, Villar is a slam dunk trade. It should really get people thinking that we should trade Bundy and Givens. Given that less teams are chasing the wild card in July, and that Givens and Bundy wouldn’t be considered elite difference makers, we’d have more of a market to trade them now.  Bundy can be a back of rotation type for two full seasons. Givens is a MR/SU guy that a team shouldn’t let face too many LH hitters. Trade them now instead of facing a niche market of 1-2 teams in July. 

[DrungoHazewood]

10 hours ago, connja said:

2nd base seems to are the only position they haven't tried out Mountcastle, which surprises me a bit since the word is that it's his arm that doesn't play at 3rd and SS.  Why haven't they tried him at 2nd, which would help to ease the corner OF/1B/DH log jam.

I don't have any insight into the Orioles' decisions and processes, but Mountcastle is 6' 3".  Here's a complete list of all players 6' 3" or taller who've played 500+ games at second in major league history: Ben Zobrist, DJ LeMahieu, Neil Walker, Mike Andrews, Don Kolloway.

Maybe this is a unfounded prejudice based on old information.  Probably it's because second basemen are selected in part for their quickness, agility and footwork around the bag while turning the double play.  Most players 6' 3" or taller aren't know for their ballerina-like moves.  

I'd at least entertain the idea that with the newer rules against takeout slides maybe teams would rethink the prioritization of agility in a second baseman.  But I still doubt the Orioles want to experiment with maybe their best hitting prospect getting his legs swept at a position he has never played as a pro.

(Edit: RC Gonzales and Ryan Flaherty are both 6' 3", so it looks like having a very tall second baseman could be key to having an out-of-nowhere Cinderella season in Baltimore)

[esmd]

Mountcastle, Mancini, and Nunez should all be splitting time between 1B and DH next year.  Trumbo is gone, Davis needs to go.  They need break the logjam of 1B/DH types.  Honestly, I'd be happy if they can find a trade partner for Nunez coming off his 30HR season.  Then you can let Mancini and Mountcastle play everyday between 1B and DH.  Or alternatively, trade Mancini if the value is there, let Nunez DH, and put Mountcastle at 1B every day.

[Philip]

4 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Basically the main ways we can acquire talent in the next 2-3 years is via the draft and selling high on players. So we want the best draft position possible. 

To me, Villar is a slam dunk trade. It should really get people thinking that we should trade Bundy and Givens. Given that less teams are chasing the wild card in July, and that Givens and Bundy wouldn’t be considered elite difference makers, we’d have more of a market to trade them now.  Bundy can be a back of rotation type for two full seasons. Givens is a MR/SU guy that a team shouldn’t let face too many LH hitters. Trade them now instead of facing a niche market of 1-2 teams in July. 

I agree that trading Villar is a good idea if possible, but I doubt he will bring back enough of a return to make a trade worthwhile.

[El Gordo]

5 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I don't have any insight into the Orioles' decisions and processes, but Mountcastle is 6' 3".  Here's a complete list of all players 6' 3" or taller who've played 500+ games at second in major league history: Ben Zobrist, DJ LeMahieu, Neil Walker, Mike Andrews, Don Kolloway.

Maybe this is a unfounded prejudice based on old information.  Probably it's because second basemen are selected in part for their quickness, agility and footwork around the bag while turning the double play.  Most players 6' 3" or taller aren't know for their ballerina-like moves.  

I'd at least entertain the idea that with the newer rules against takeout slides maybe teams would rethink the prioritization of agility in a second baseman.  But I still doubt the Orioles want to experiment with maybe their best hitting prospect getting his legs swept at a position he has never played as a pro.

(Edit: RC Gonzales and Ryan Flaherty are both 6' 3", so it looks like having a very tall second baseman could be key to having an out-of-nowhere Cinderella season in Baltimore)

Schoop was only 6'2"' but built like a linebacker, and while not exactly balletic nobody turned the DP better IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[DrungoHazewood]

7 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

Schoop was only 6'2"' but built like a linebacker, and while not exactly balletic nobody turned the DP better IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I don't disagree, but Schoop has a third baseman's arm.  He probably had one of the better second baseman's arms I've seen.  Mountcastle doesn't, and he's never played second.  It just seems unlikely.

[El Gordo]

7 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I don't disagree, but Schoop has a third baseman's arm.  He probably had one of the better second baseman's arms I've seen.  Mountcastle doesn't, and he's never played second.  It just seems unlikely.

Not arguing for Mountcastle just contesting the notion that 2B has to be BRob/Altuve types.

[UpstateNYfan]

1 hour ago, El Gordo said:

Schoop was only 6'2"' but built like a linebacker, and while not exactly balletic nobody turned the DP better IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I agree, and nobody, IMO took throws on steals and made better tags at second. But, I thought he was rather average or below on range, going to his right on bloops. He just seemed nonchalant on plays he may have had some chance at. I don't know a thing about Mountcastle other than what has been written here. I could be wrong, but it seems the biggest complaint was his arm at third. It would be nice if he could handle second, 30 HR's at that position is a plus. I would guess the higher ups have already decided it would not work.

[Hallas]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I don't disagree, but Schoop has a third baseman's arm.  He probably had one of the better second baseman's arms I've seen.  Mountcastle doesn't, and he's never played second.  It just seems unlikely.

Is there a reason why shorter ballerina like players are preferred at 2B but not at SS?  I can't really see why 2B would require a player to be more athletic than SS.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 minute ago, Hallas said:

Is there a reason why shorter ballerina like players are preferred at 2B but not at SS?  I can't really see why 2B would require a player to be more athletic than SS.

I assume it's all about the double play pivot, the quick transfer from catch to throwing to a base behind you, and the fact your back is usually to the baserunner while waiting for the throw.  The shortstop almost always has the play in front of him, and is coming across the bag.  

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, El Gordo said:

Not arguing for Mountcastle just contesting the notion that 2B has to be BRob/Altuve types.

Weird aside, but prior to about 1920 or 1930 third basemen and second basemen were kind of switched.  Second basemen were often bigger guys who were valued more for hitting than glove.  Third basemen were seen as defense-first players whose primary responsibility was to be agile and handle the endless bunts coming their way.  I think Nap Lajoie was built more like Schoop than Altuve (at least for his era).

[Roll Tide]

On 10/2/2019 at 2:57 PM, DrungoHazewood said:

So he should bring in a decent return in a trade. Even if it's just for one year of him at 3rd year arb prices.

I was thinking a player in teams top 5-10 range, a 25-30, and some filler.

[SilverRocket]

19 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

That was more of a vague approximation.  But I don't really like the idea of signing a pretty good player into his early-to-mid 30s at free agent rates.  Maybe it's Brian Roberts.

Villar and Roberts are basically the same player.