Will Elias be able to improve the O's starting pitching this off season?

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Nope.  But let's be real, Means is the exception to what we've usually got.  I mean, c'mon, you've got Means who was a pleasant surprise and then you've got:

Hess

Yefry

Ynoa

Brooks

Eshelman

Wojo

Araujo

Straily

Karns

And I'm not including the always injured/always disappointing Cobb because I'm in the Christmas spirit and feeling generous here.  The chances of someone stepping up and delivering a Means performance is minimal and I believe you're aware of that.

Sig is trying to find the next Means with his analytics.    Why is Hanhold still on the roster?  Spin  rate?   More will be identified  this off season.  If one works out that is progress.

[weams]

 

 

[weams]

 

[7Mo]

Thanks @weams. These videos are great.

[weams]

4 minutes ago, 7Mo said:

Thanks @weams. These videos are great.

Sig is SO Fun. No wonder he was invited to all of those weddings. 

[tntoriole]

12 hours ago, wildcard said:

We all know  that free agent starters only come to the Orioles when they have no where else to go.    Camden Yards and the AL East is one of the hardest places to pitch in the MLB.   The only way to attract starter is to over pay for them and that, of course, is not in the O's plans at this point.  

We expect that Norfolk this season will begin with Akin, Kremer, Zimmerman, Baumann, Lowther and Wells getting starts at AAA.  That is the near term future.  They all have something to prove to make the majors.  Akin may be a month or two away.  The others are probably three to five months or more away.

We know Means, Cobb and Wojo are the O's top three starters.  Elias will need to fill two more starter spots plus add depth  Here are the current candidates for those spots.

(1) David Hess (26)  4-20, 5.84 ERA in the majors.    6-4,  3.83 ERA at AAA.  He is probably best used as  a reliever but enters ST he may compete for a starting role because the O's need starters.  He has options left.

(2) Tom Eshelman (25)   1-2,  6.50 ERA in the majors.   15-18,  4.12 ERA at AAA.   On the Norfolk roster.   

(3) Ty Blach  (29)  16-22,   4.99 ERA in the majors.  28-24,  4.54 ERA at AAA.  On the Norfolk roster.

(4)  Chandler Shepherd (27)   0-0 , 6.63 ERA in the majors.   12-27, 4.62 ERA at AAA.  On the Norfolk roster.

(5) Luis Ortiz (24)   0-2,  12.71 ERA in the majors.    5-8, 5.51 ERA at AAA.  on the Norfolk roster.

The question is will Elias be able to improve on these starter candidates without spending much money through the waiver wire, purchases, trades, non tenders and free agents from both major and minor  leagues?   Past history shows if starters have a choice they go elsewhere.

 

What you say is true, but the other side is that our current options are so horrible, that it makes the likelihood of improvement by signing anyone higher than it would otherwise be.  So, yeah, do I think they can possibly find somebody marginally better than David Hess?  Probably. 

[Moose Milligan]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

Sig is trying to find the next Means with his analytics.    Why is Hanhold still on the roster?  Spin  rate?   More will be identified  this off season.  If one works out that is progress.

I understand.  But it's a low hit rate.  

[7Mo]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I understand.  But it's a low hit rate.  

We don't need a grand slam to be improved.

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, 7Mo said:

We don't need a grand slam to be improved.

I'm done here.

[7Mo]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm done here.

Sorry if I offended you.

I like the idea we might make incremental improvements. I saw your post earlier that suggests you're not interested. I shouldn't have responded to your post. My fault.

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, 7Mo said:

Sorry if I offended you.

I like the idea we might make incremental improvements. I saw your post earlier that suggests you're not interested. I shouldn't have responded to your post. My fault.

No, it's not that.  It''s the notion that people (wildcard) seem to bank on the idea that it's a recipe for success.  And he ignored the point (as usual) that it's a low hit rate.  My initial point is that for every Means you get, there are 8-10 other types that just don't work out.  Our pitching was historically terrible for a reason last year.  The idea that Elias and Sig are going to conjure up more Means types this year is silly. 

I agree that if Means can maintain what he did last year and they an coax another Means type performance out of some quad-A/filler type, that's a step in the right direction.  However to think that it'll happen for sure is foolish.  I think Elias and Sig would be the first to admit that.  They can find some guys that have positive attributes that they might be able to work with but I think that's all they'd tell you.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

No, it's not that.  It''s the notion that people (wildcard) seem to bank on the idea that it's a recipe for success.  And he ignored the point (as usual) that it's a low hit rate.  My initial point is that for every Means you get, there are 8-10 other types that just don't work out.  Our pitching was historically terrible for a reason last year.  The idea that Elias and Sig are going to conjure up more Means types this year is silly. 

I agree that if Means can maintain what he did last year and they an coax another Means type performance out of some quad-A/filler type, that's a step in the right direction.  However to think that it'll happen for sure is foolish.  I think Elias and Sig would be the first to admit that.  They can find some guys that have positive attributes that they might be able to work with but I think that's all they'd tell you.

Also more teams are clued into what to look for these days.

[wildcard]

22 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

No, it's not that.  It''s the notion that people (wildcard) seem to bank on the idea that it's a recipe for success.  And he ignored the point (as usual) that it's a low hit rate.  My initial point is that for every Means you get, there are 8-10 other types that just don't work out.  Our pitching was historically terrible for a reason last year.  The idea that Elias and Sig are going to conjure up more Means types this year is silly. 

I agree that if Means can maintain what he did last year and they an coax another Means type performance out of some quad-A/filler type, that's a step in the right direction.  However to think that it'll happen for sure is foolish.  I think Elias and Sig would be the first to admit that.  They can find some guys that have positive attributes that they might be able to work with but I think that's all they'd tell you.

I never said it was more than a low hit rate.  But I am interested on seeing who Elias and Sig comes up with.

[Moose Milligan]

9 hours ago, wildcard said:

I never said it was more than a low hit rate.  But I am interested on seeing who Elias and Sig come up with.

I'm not interested until they turn into Means.  And then I'll pretend I was interested all along.

[jerios55]

So I read somewhere (I've been all over the webs so I don't have a link)

What would be a level people would be ok with a Cashner return?  Say he signed 4 mill, with a bunch of starts/ IP incentives (incentives similar to original O's contract). 

With the big question marks on the team and obviously we won't go for big names.  He wanted to stay here and could sign at a discount.  I know it's not about winning this year, but a level of stability to essentially replace Bundy.  Wouldn't go out of my way to re-sign him, but if he hits "O's FA $$ levels" they could certainly do worse.

Means, Cobb (?? can we really write him in...), Wojo, Cashner, Carousel of Fantastic Waiver Riders?  That's a high 2021 pick starting 5 right there.