Tigers sign Schoop to a 1-year $6.1M contract

[MurphDogg]

25 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

What's your definition of competent?  The Jays are spending money to finish in 4th place.  

Sports is entertainment. The Jays are spending money and their fans will get to watch better players. They will have a competent pitching staff and a bunch of fun, interesting position players. 

They may not be the favorites to win the AL East, but they are at least spending money and trying to compete. They may finish 4th, but it could all come together for them in 2020 like it did for the Orioles in 2014.

I like watching baseball and would rather watch a good team than a bad team. I am jealous of Jays fans.

[LookinUp]

45 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Yeah, screw those fans spending their hard-earned dollars who would prefer to see a competent team on the field!

You can be as snarky about it as you want. We've had this debate on this website for years now. Do you want to be a franchise that spends now and is always caught in the middle or do you want to have a plan for something great, or do you want to try to do both?

Maybe it's possible to do it both ways. Perhaps their ownership is willing to float the difference. I just know that the Orioles were in the middle for 20 years, and while we did have a few years of relative success, we were never able to take a Detroit-like approach and turn it into a powerful contender. Maybe that was about the people in charge more than the process, I don't know. But to act like I'm just in favor of screwing the fans is disingenuous and should be below a poster with your knowledge and experience on this site.

[MurphDogg]

1 minute ago, LookinUp said:

You can be as snarky about it as you want. We've had this debate on this website for years now. Do you want to be a franchise that spends now and is always caught in the middle or do you want to have a plan for something great, or do you want to try to do both?

Maybe it's possible to do it both ways. Perhaps their ownership is willing to float the difference. I just know that the Orioles were in the middle for 20 years, and while we did have a few years of relative success, we were never able to take a Detroit-like approach and turn it into a powerful contender. Maybe that was about the people in charge more than the process, I don't know. But to act like I'm just in favor of screwing the fans is disingenuous and should be below a poster with your knowledge and experience on this site.

I think this is a false premise. I don't believe that money saved now will be spent later. I think the Orioles owe it to their fans to spend $15-20 million to field a more competitive team next year, even if they have no illusions of making it to the playoffs and it leads to a few more wins and a slightly lower draft position. Watching a team designed to lose is soul crushing and it is a slap in the face to ask fans to pay Major League prices to watch the team as it is currently constructed. It is bad for the long term growth of the sport. Sign guys to make the team watchable and competitive and trade them if they are good and have surplus value at the trade deadline.

Detroit has the same number of playoff seasons and has won the same number of World Series' that the Orioles have over the last 25 years. They have had one more playoff seasons than the Orioles over the last 10 years with their great approach. The Tigers made the playoffs four times and the Orioles had more wins than them in two of those four seasons.

[webbrick2010]

That is a crazy overpay for Schoop.

If they were going to waste 6 million dollars, Adam Jones may have been a better value.

[webbrick2010]

Or they could have traded for Villar

[atomic]

25 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Sports is entertainment. The Jays are spending money and their fans will get to watch better players. They will have a competent pitching staff and a bunch of fun, interesting position players. 

They may not be the favorites to win the AL East, but they are at least spending money and trying to compete. They may finish 4th, but it could all come together for them in 2020 like it did for the Orioles in 2014.

I like watching baseball and would rather watch a good team than a bad team. I am jealous of Jays fans.

I wonder if the Tigers, Marlins and the Jays are spending more money because they were strongly advised to by MLB.    And the Orioles got the message and are ignoring it. 

[Frobby]

11 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

That is a crazy overpay for Schoop.

If they were going to waste 6 million dollars, Adam Jones may have been a better value.

I don’t know why you say this.  He’s a 1.5 - 2.0 WAR player.     $6.1 mm is pretty reasonable for that.    

[atomic]

43 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

You can be as snarky about it as you want. We've had this debate on this website for years now. Do you want to be a franchise that spends now and is always caught in the middle or do you want to have a plan for something great, or do you want to try to do both?

Maybe it's possible to do it both ways. Perhaps their ownership is willing to float the difference. I just know that the Orioles were in the middle for 20 years, and while we did have a few years of relative success, we were never able to take a Detroit-like approach and turn it into a powerful contender. Maybe that was about the people in charge more than the process, I don't know. But to act like I'm just in favor of screwing the fans is disingenuous and should be below a poster with your knowledge and experience on this site.

LOL.  Someone disagrees with you and you come back with this.   Really if your argument is that weak that you have to have ad hominem attacks than maybe you shouldn't be making it. 

[Going Underground]

We shall  see how long the Astros run lasts. Payroll is now top 5 and their farm system is now ranked near the bottom. The two main pitchers are also old. They might have a nice six or seven year run. The Astros between 1997 and 2005 made  the playoffs six times.. Won 102 and 97 games back to back  when teams were not tanking as much. In those years they had one losing season. We shall see if Astroball will last or be the flavor of the month till some other plan gets developed.

The Tigers are going to throw some major league competent players on the field. No big deal since one year deals and baseball revenue is sky high. They have two bad contracts already on the books for $55 million this year. I am sure they can rebuild and spend 10 to 12 million more. They have the first pick this year and will probably be top 5 next year. 

 

[Just Regular]

Cesar Hernandez takes the Indians 2B seat at about the same price.

~ Top 5 FA: Starlin Castro, Wilmer Flores, Brian Dozier, Asdrubal Cabrera, Scooter Gennett

~ Bottom 5 Incumbents: OAK Barreto, CHC David Bote, SFG Mauricio Dubon, KC Nicky Lopez, BAL Hanser Alberto?

I think SFG/KC probably want to see what they have in Dubon/Lopez.  Didn't list CWS despite Danny Mendick atop depth chart as I suspect Madrigal in April.  Nationals have Kieboom coming but could see them buying back Dozier/Asdrubal to cushion and keep the band together.

[LookinUp]

2 hours ago, atomic said:

I wonder if the Tigers, Marlins and the Jays are spending more money because they were strongly advised to by MLB.    And the Orioles got the message and are ignoring it. 

I'm not getting into a peeing contest on the internet, provocation or no. My position is clear and it's not one that supports screwing the fans. 

[Scalious]

3 hours ago, LookinUp said:

Magic of goat farming aside, I think this concept isn't a different way to the same goal, it's an additional path to a larger goal. 

If every team has a direct path to 10 prospects, Detroit theoretically just created a path to another 2-3 prospects that wouldn't otherwise be there. This could be considered a wise move if 1) they're taking advantage of all of the other paths and 2) anything lost w/r/t having a better team (e.g., draft slots, team cash) is outweighed by whatever they gain through future prospect trades. 

My problem isn't that Detroit did this, it's that they did it for Schoop (low OBP, low BA guy) and Cron (1B). The market for these two isn't going to be massive, so I really doubt they get good prospects back and this works out from a pure FV standpoint.

I essentially think they just blew a few million on a few more wins to shut the fans up.

What would be a better path of spending 10M?

3 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

What's your definition of competent?  The Jays are spending money to finish in 4th place.  

All of their major hitting prosects are in the majors. I agree the Jays are still not there, but you also cannot waste the advantage you are given when you have a several pre-arb talented players. Vlad/Bichette/Biggio/Gurriel are only going to become more expensive if you wait. They are in an ackward spot.

 

[Camden_yardbird]

3 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

What's your definition of competent?  The Jays are spending money to finish in 4th place.  

I would but a bet down that they finish better than 4th.  They have hitting that is only going to get scarier.  They have the proverbial Ace in the Hole in Pearson.  I think people overestimate the Red Sox.  Something is seriously wrong with Sale and they just lost the consistent 180 innings of Porcello.

As for Schoop.  A nice deal for both sides.  

[Just Regular]

It's interesting to watch the Reds/White Sox/Blue Jays type of team chase free agents as they seem to me the most relevant comps for where we'll hopefully be in a couple years.  The foundation has to come from talent accumulation and player development, but it is pretty rare for that to be the be-all and end-all. 

If 2020 is enough of a success, it isn't inconceivable next offseason there's flirtation with a 2021-2023 or 2021-2024 player to be part of the Rutschman Supporting Cast.  Enough of a success mostly means Rodriguez/Hall taking another clean step towards Front Half of rotation relevance, and 1-2 miscellaneous breakthroughs. 

[DrungoHazewood]

4 hours ago, LookinUp said:

I essentially think they just blew a few million on a few more wins to shut the fans up.

Yes, this.  They spent $10M for wins 52, 53, and 54.  Or something like that.