Hess is copying the Means plan

[scOtt]

I love it when a plan comes together!

[sportsfan8703]

Maybe I’m confused, but shouldn’t the O’s have all their guys on P3 type programs with help from O’s staff members?

[wildcard]

I am not going to count on Hess making the jump that Means did last year.  It would be nice if it happens but it does happen that often.   I still think Hess may contribute as a reliever.  He has options.  And he is young enough to still get another shot.       

However his best chance will be in the first half.   There are a lot of guys that will begin the season in AAA that will be push there way to the majors next season.   So I hope Hess gets off to a good start next spring.                                                                                                                                                                   

[Luke-OH]

17 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Maybe I’m confused, but shouldn’t the O’s have all their guys on P3 type programs with help from O’s staff members?

I think it's safe to say, they all have stuff to work on. The team can't force a player to go to P3 or RPP or Cressey's or Driveline though. 

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

I think it's safe to say, they all have stuff to work on. The team can't force a player to go to P3 or RPP or Cressey's or Driveline though. 

No, but if you are an unestablished player who has struggled in your major league stints you’d be foolish not to try these kinds of things.   

[Luke-OH]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

No, but if you are an unestablished player who has struggled in your major league stints you’d be foolish not to try these kinds of things.   

I'm in full agreement with you, but not everyone does it. 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Luke-OH said:

I'm in full agreement with you, but not everyone does it. 

I’m glad Hess is trying it.   He’s not completely without talent.    I’ve always felt mediocre command was his big problem.  

[Whammer]

2 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Maybe I’m confused, but shouldn’t the O’s have all their guys on P3 type programs with help from O’s staff members?

Perhaps it's a players union thing? 

Otherwise, Elias would have Davis in a mandatory, structured hitting program from October to February.

[TGO]

5 hours ago, Whammer said:

Perhaps it's a players union thing? 

Otherwise, Elias would have Davis in a mandatory, structured hitting program from October to February.

Right, they don't get paid for it so you can't force them to go. If a player has already "made it" as a player and got a big pay day it's a tough sell. 

[Tx Oriole]

8 hours ago, scOtt said:

I love it when a plan comes together!

Sorry but I hated that show. 

[AnythingO's]

2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Lost in all of this, is the biggest reason for Means' success and that was his change up.  

Absolutely and he credits Holt I believe so that is hopeful for holding on to gains going forward. When DD brought in Rick Petersen I thought that would be a big positive but IMO Buck didn't support it in the MiL and after a few years Petersen left. Now we hear of P3-type programs. I'm pretty sure Petersen was working with the surgeon in AL (Andrews?) to do bio-mechanical analysis. I think they called it 3P something. It stuck in my head because I could never figure out what the "Ps" stood for. I think they were more concerned with avoiding injury rather than maximizing performance but I suppose they could go hand in hand. Does anone know if the current programs are an evolution of the Petersen work or what the damn Ps stand for?

[Frobby]

17 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

Absolutely and he credits Holt I believe so that is hopeful for holding on to gains going forward. When DD brought in Rick Petersen I thought that would be a big positive but IMO Buck didn't support it in the MiL and after a few years Petersen left. Now we hear of P3-type programs. I'm pretty sure Petersen was working with the surgeon in AL (Andrews?) to do bio-mechanical analysis. I think they called it 3P something. It stuck in my head because I could never figure out what the "Ps" stood for. I think they were more concerned with avoiding injury rather than maximizing performance but I suppose they could go hand in hand. Does anone know if the current programs are an evolution of the Petersen work or what the damn Ps stand for?

3P Sports.    Not sure, but I’m guessing it stands for peak pitching performance, based on this description on Wikipedia:

“In January 2009, Peterson along with Jim Duquette and other business partners launched 3P Sports. 3P Sports combined Peterson's coaching philosophies for conditioning, pitching drills and sports psychology with biomechanical analysis data using the work done by Dr. James Andrew's American Sports Medicine Institute ASMI as the benchmark. The 3P Program claims to help pitchers of all ages achieve peak pitching performance while remaining healthy.”   https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Peterson

[7Mo]

32 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

Absolutely and he credits Holt I believe so that is hopeful for holding on to gains going forward. When DD brought in Rick Petersen I thought that would be a big positive but IMO Buck didn't support it in the MiL and after a few years Petersen left. Now we hear of P3-type programs. I'm pretty sure Petersen was working with the surgeon in AL (Andrews?) to do bio-mechanical analysis. I think they called it 3P something. It stuck in my head because I could never figure out what the "Ps" stood for. I think they were more concerned with avoiding injury rather than maximizing performance but I suppose they could go hand in hand. Does anone know if the current programs are an evolution of the Petersen work or what the damn Ps stand for?

The P3 specific to Means and Hess is a facility in St Louis named Premier Pitching and Performance. 

There are a number of programs and ideas for enhancing performance that have grown from many, many difference sources. Years ago, Alan Jaeger was probably the best known name. Trevor Bauer brought him a lot of publicity. Here's an article: https://www.si.com/edge/2015/04/15/training-with-trevor-bauer-cleveland-indians-long-toss

Driveline and Kyle Boddy are big names these days. All use different methods or combinations of methods to unlock velocity and to add stability. Here's what Driveline is about: https://www.drivelinebaseball.com/why-driveline/

Here's P3: http://www.p3stlouis.com/

There are a lot of ways to increase performance and there are a lot of prospects eager to do what they can to improve. That's a shift in thought from a decade ago when there wasn't clear evidence that these programs were working. But remember, it wasn't too long ago that no one believed in weight lifting or training. 

Improving performance and avoiding injury should go hand in hand, when done well because an overall approach will focus on the little muscles rather than primary muscles and will incorporate reverse or oppo training for stabilization. 

I haven't seen a direct link to Rick Peterson and Dr James Andrews but it all sprouts from the same idea, just done with different methodology. 

[scOtt]

16 hours ago, Tx Oriole said:

Sorry but I hated that show. 

It wasn't my favorite but that's a great line!

[scOtt]

3 hours ago, 7Mo said:

The P3 specific to Means and Hess is a facility in St Louis named Premier Pitching and Performance. 

There are a number of programs and ideas for enhancing performance that have grown from many, many difference sources. Years ago, Alan Jaeger was probably the best known name. Trevor Bauer brought him a lot of publicity. Here's an article: https://www.si.com/edge/2015/04/15/training-with-trevor-bauer-cleveland-indians-long-toss

Driveline and Kyle Boddy are big names these days. All use different methods or combinations of methods to unlock velocity and to add stability. Here's what Driveline is about: https://www.drivelinebaseball.com/why-driveline/

Here's P3: http://www.p3stlouis.com/

There are a lot of ways to increase performance and there are a lot of prospects eager to do what they can to improve. That's a shift in thought from a decade ago when there wasn't clear evidence that these programs were working. But remember, it wasn't too long ago that no one believed in weight lifting or training. 

Improving performance and avoiding injury should go hand in hand, when done well because an overall approach will focus on the little muscles rather than primary muscles and will incorporate reverse or oppo training for stabilization. 

I haven't seen a direct link to Rick Peterson and Dr James Andrews but it all sprouts from the same idea, just done with different methodology. 

Dug out from some of those links, P3 is (just this summer) using this Markerless Motion Capture system developed by Simi in Munich.