Video of Altuve

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

People know right from wrong. Suspend people that participated in the cheating. 

How can you determine that?

Everyone of them knew it was wrong.  Everyone of them was complicit in the act.

One having a "change of heart" after being spurned by the team and moving to a division rival doesn't change that.

Plus, as I said, in some of these cases you would be punishing fans and teams that had nothing to do with it.

[Moose Milligan]

53 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

They should suspend the players but stagger them. The players were involved too, they committed the crime, they should get a suspension too. 

Nah, there shouldn't be any leniency, no staggering.  Team's gotta deal with how to fill the gaps, too.  

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Nah, there shouldn't be any leniency, no staggering.  Team's gotta deal with how to fill the gaps, too.  

Seems reasonable to suspend every player that spent time on the 25 man roster of the 2017 Astros.

While we are at it let's suspend everyone that was on the 2018 Red Sox roster for even a day.

How about the 2017 Red Sox players?  Are we suspending them?

Should we kick Harold Baines out of the Hall of Fame?  He was on the White Sox teams that might have been stealing signs.

[TommyPickles]

If Pete Rose and Barry Bonds can't get in the Hall of Fame, should Altuve?

I'm disgusted with the Astros organization.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, TommyPickles said:

If Pete Rose and Barry Bonds can't get in the Hall of Fame, should Altuve?

I'm disgusted with the Astros organization.

I think Bonds gets in at some point.  I fully expect this incident to impact Altuve's chances.

Rose is a separate issue entirely since he's ineligible.

[atomic]

I doubt the Red Sex get any punishment.  The only reason the Astros got punishment as people outside of baseball discovered the drumming and made YouTube videos of it.  If it were just Fiers word nothing would have happened.  MLB has not allowed clubs to comment on punishment, they didn’t punish any of the players.  The GM and manager got 9 month suspensions.  MLB just wants public attention to the scandal to go away they don’t want to find out all that occurred and to stamp out cheating

[mdbdotcom]

47 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

People know right from wrong. Suspend people that participated in the cheating. 

If the manager knew it was going on and did not stop it, why should the players?

[atomic]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I think Bonds gets in at some point.  I fully expect this incident to impact Altuve's chances.

Rose is a separate issue entirely since he's ineligible.

Beltran is probably affected as he is borderline Hall of Fame.

[Ripken]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Seems reasonable to suspend every player that spent time on the 25 man roster of the 2017 Astros.

While we are at it let's suspend everyone that was on the 2018 Red Sox roster for even a day.

How about the 2017 Red Sox players?  Are we suspending them?

Should we kick Harold Baines out of the Hall of Fame?  He was on the White Sox teams that might have been stealing signs.

This is the attitude that allows the cheating to continue.  If you want it to stop, players have to pay.  If it harms another team that's too bad.  The integrity of the game is more important than anything else.

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, Ripken said:

This is the attitude that allows the cheating to continue.  If you want it to stop, players have to pay.  If it harms another team that's too bad.  The integrity of the game is more important than anything else.

No, that is being realistic.

 

[atomic]

8 minutes ago, Ripken said:

This is the attitude that allows the cheating to continue.  If you want it to stop, players have to pay.  If it harms another team that's too bad.  The integrity of the game is more important than anything else.

This is why I have said punishment is too light.  Neither players or owner was punished.  The players know they won’t be punished for cheating so they are being encouraged to cheat.  Also if the commissioner just wanted for fans to be placated, he failed in this as well as there is more outrage now than before punishment was announced.

[Can_of_corn]

[Can_of_corn]

Do players count as club personnel?

[Philip]

 This was an organized, systematic, detailed scandal that involved the entire 25 man roster and all the coaches. It is literally impossible that nobody on the 25 man roster knew what was going on.

The idea that individual players should not be penalized because the player’s union will rebel is a foolish argument at best. The players union would be in a position of protecting cheaters. The only possible defense would be, “my guy didn’t know what was going on and did not participate.“ In a criminal trial you’ve got to prove guilt “beyond a reasonable doubt“ but in a civil trial you only need to prove guilt with a “preponderance of the evidence“ and by that standard, nobody on the Astros roster or coaching staff can escape. 

 So yes, the players should be penalized. Someone suggested that the roster should forfeit their playoff bonus, with which I heartily  agree. I would include a requirement for a written admission and apology from every player.

No it’s not going to happen, but every reason that it is not going to happen is a bad reason.

[Philip]

By the way, I loathe Manfred. I think he has yet to make a single move that is beneficial to the game.

This situation is yet another fiasco.