SI: MLBPA rejects 2020 draft proposal - UPDATE 5 round implemented

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Redskins Rick said:

 

Ok, fair enough, so my thought process was wrong.

But, the end result of this, town lose teams and jobs, and the owner get richer.

Im not saying the current MIL model doesnt need revamping or tweaking, to improve things.

But what is the prime motivation here for change?

 

If you had a business and you realized it was being run inefficiently would you just leave it? 

[Redskins Rick]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If you had a business and you realized it was being run inefficiently would you just leave it? 

Some of the minor league teams are doing very well for themselves, I wonder how many of them are losing money?

I dont see the MIL as a for profit business which they are.

But, they are also in the development player business. So you have to invest time and energy into a prospect to give them a chance at the bigs.

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Redskins Rick said:

Some of the minor league teams are doing very well for themselves, I wonder how many of them are losing money?

I dont see the MIL as a for profit business which they are.

But, they are also in the development player business. So you have to invest time and energy into a prospect to give them a chance at the bigs.

 

You just sidestepped my question.

If you had a business and you realized that it was being run inefficiently would you just leave it?

 

[Redskins Rick]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You just sidestepped my question.

If you had a business and you realized that it was being run inefficiently would you just leave it?

 

No I wouldnt.

But, I think I explained that I dont recall the MIL as a business, just to turn a profit. Of course, only my opinion.

With the contraction of the MIL are they actually going to raise the income for the players which in some cases is below the poverty line?

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

No I wouldnt.

But, I think I explained that I dont recall the MIL as a business, just to turn a profit. Of course, only my opinion.

With the contraction of the MIL are they actually going to raise the income for the players which in some cases is below the poverty line?

So you are holding MLB to a standard that you wouldn't hold yourself?  That seems irrational.

As for your question I do think that is in the works. 

[Redskins Rick]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So you are holding MLB to a standard that you wouldn't hold yourself?  That seems irrational.

As for your question I do think that is in the works. 

Its not irrational, to develop players into big leaguers.

Do all college turn a profit,  or are some supported by state budget and deep alumni pockets, as their mission is to develop young adults into future income earners?

I do not equate Bowie Baysox with Home Depot next door to their stadium.

Sorry, I just dont agree.

So that makes me irrational?

Lets just agree to disagree.

[DrungoHazewood]

4 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Its not irrational, to develop players into big leaguers.

Do all college turn a profit,  or are some supported by state budget and deep alumni pockets, as their mission is to develop young adults into future income earners?

I do not equate Bowie Baysox with Home Depot next door to their stadium.

Sorry, I just dont agree.

So that makes me irrational?

Lets just agree to disagree.

Of course minor league baseball is a business.  And a particularly obvious one.  In the beginning there were minor league teams because owners liked baseball and wanted to make money. When that became a challenge they sold out to the majors, co-opting all affiliated minor league seasons for all time so that the MLB teams could have a source of inexpensive talent and the minor league owners could turn a profit. 

The minor leagues are the only sports leagues in the world that I know of that have completely given up on the idea of fielding legitimate and competitive teams and having competitive championship races because turning a profit was more important.

The idea that this construct should be held in the same regard as state-run universities and colleges is, at least to me, ludicrous.

[Redskins Rick]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Of course minor league baseball is a business.  And a particularly obvious one.  In the beginning there were minor league teams because owners liked baseball and wanted to make money. When that became a challenge they sold out to the majors, co-opting all affiliated minor league seasons for all time so that the MLB teams could have a source of inexpensive talent and the minor league owners could turn a profit. 

The minor leagues are the only sports leagues in the world that I know of that have completely given up on the idea of fielding legitimate and competitive teams and having competitive championship races because turning a profit was more important.

The idea that this construct should be held in the same regard as state-run universities and colleges is, at least to me, ludicrous.

I thought MIL teams gave up on fielding competitive teams at the MIL level and winning MIL playoff games was secondary, and their number 1 goal was player development.

A long time ago, a famous money man, cant remember who. Said if you want to make money, dont buy a sports team, while they make money, their goal is more entertainment, then trying to run a business to see how much you can squeeze out of it.

Oh well, I am in the minority with you all today.

But, I still respect your opinions.

[Can_of_corn]

26 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

I thought MIL teams gave up on fielding competitive teams at the MIL level and winning MIL playoff games was secondary, and their number 1 goal was player development.

A long time ago, a famous money man, cant remember who. Said if you want to make money, dont buy a sports team, while they make money, their goal is more entertainment, then trying to run a business to see how much you can squeeze out of it.

Oh well, I am in the minority with you all today.

But, I still respect your opinions.

How about you check out franchise values?  Royals are the most recent team to be sold.  They sold for a billion.  The last time they were sold was 2000.  They sold for 96 million.

i think your famous money man isn't relevant today.

 

[DrungoHazewood]

41 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

I thought MIL teams gave up on fielding competitive teams at the MIL level and winning MIL playoff games was secondary, and their number 1 goal was player development.

For 50+ years the only goals of a minor league owner was to field a good, competitive team and win championships and make money.

When many owners found making money to be a challenge, that coincided with MLB owners becoming disenchanted with paying market rates for minor league players.  So they worked out a deal: the MiLB owners would sell players to the MLBers at a set fee, whenever the MLB wanted, and whomever they wanted.  Over time that became the MLB team paying all minor league salaries, and having immediate access to any player they wanted.  And the minor league teams really didn't have to worry so much about turning a profit.

So by roughly 1960 there were no real minor league competitions any more, they were all in it for the good of the majors.  Even if that means Edmonton and Walla Walla exist solely to benefit a MLB team thousands of miles away with no organic connection to the area.  And Edmonton and Walla Walla have no control whatsoever on the quality or makeup of their team. And because players rarely spend even a full year at a level there is NO lasting connection between players and fans.

You can develop major league players without nuking the community nature of your local ballclub.

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Ultimately it is about money of course but I do think that they think the current minor league system is outmoded.  From a development standpoint do you think teams need as many teams as they currently have?  Are the younger kids better off playing in rookie league ball or working in camps the year they are drafted?

It’s hard to say if they need as many teams as they currently have.    It’s nice to be able to put players on development tracks that fit their needs.   The more levels there are, the easier it is to find the right time to promote a player.    Now is that a necessity?   Arguably not.    But does it lead to better development?   Arguably yes.   

[DrungoHazewood]

27 minutes ago, Frobby said:

It’s hard to say if they need as many teams as they currently have.    It’s nice to be able to put players on development tracks that fit their needs.   The more levels there are, the easier it is to find the right time to promote a player.    Now is that a necessity?   Arguably not.    But does it lead to better development?   Arguably yes.   

It would be nice if the AL could run an alternate set up for a decade like with 2-3 levels of minors, and the NL the current one.  Then we could do a big study and compare who developed the best prospects.  Otherwise it's hard to tell.

Japan has one level of minors, so does Korea. Running short seasons.  Mexico has a small feeder league below their main league, every team doesn't have an affiliate.

At 18-19 Ichrio split the season between Orix and their Ni-Gun League affiliate.  It would be interesting to see how a contracted minor league system might influence things like free agency eligibility.  I think many really good players would be just as well off being part-time players in the majors at earlier ages than spending years riding buses around the minors.  But that never happens because of service time.  If everyone became a free agent at 28 and there was no expectation of winding his way through multiple levels of minors, Ryan Mountcastle would now have almost 1000 MLB plate appearances.

[weams]

5 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

If you had a business and you realized it was being run inefficiently would you just leave it? 

 

 

[scOtt]

10 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think you will lose the occasional player that would have had a nice ML career otherwise but we won't know so no one will miss them.

For the most part you will just be removing chaff. 

Right. The 26th round (or whatever) Mike Piazza. The LOTTO win. Otherwise chaff. Roster filler.

[scOtt]

10 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

If you want to implement a swing change, or pitching delivery tweak it has to be a lot more difficult in game situations.  In a controlled environment they are getting instant feedback.

And now high speed cams and electronic gizmos!