Owners submit new economic plan to union : UPDATED

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, accinfo said:

There will never be a better excuse to bring in an electronic strike zone then now.  The two closes people on a field is the home plate umpire and the catcher.  I know they said before all this the umpire was still going to be there to override the machine but just rethink that.  

After the owners and players come to an agreement they have to the get the umpires' union to sign off. 

[UpstateNYfan]

34 minutes ago, CarrRun49 said:

Extra inning changes?  I can't think of one thing I would change about extra innings baseball.

Play a regular 10th, or 10th or 11th.....after that each team gets to start a player at 2nd base...see how it goes. Games are long enough, we don't need 15,16 inning games.

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, UpstateNYfan said:

Play a regular 10th, or 10th or 11th.....after that each team gets to start a player at 2nd base...see how it goes. Games are long enough, we don't need 15,16 inning games.

 

Why not just have the mangers decide the result on a game of Roshambo?

[UpstateNYfan]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Why not just have the mangers decide the result on a game of Roshambo?

I agree.

[interloper]

Not only does the union have to agree, the medical professionals do, too. So wake me when there's actually baseball. Until then, I've already made my peace that baseball will return in 2021. Seems dicey to start playing right as the second wave of the virus is due to hit. 

Second and third actually. The second will be when the US reopens too early and cases spike, which is already beginning to happen, especially in factories. And the third wave will be in the fall. 

Just wait until 2021. 

[DrungoHazewood]

16 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

That'll never happen.  While Tony Clark is a jerk for digging his heels in here, it's what he's gotta do as the MLBPA president.  Giving on this issue would be a slippery slope for them moving forward.  The MLB owners want a cap, the MLBPA is so incredibly strong and they don't want to give an inch.  Ever.  Including at a time like this.

I don't see how the MLBPA agrees to play this year, really.  Which is unfortunate.  

MLBPA also recognizes that there is no floor, and the player's share of the revenues has dropped from nearly 50% to something a bit over 40%.  Teams have realized just how stupid 5- and 8-year contracts for pretty good 33-year-olds are, and they're focusing efforts on development and much cheaper pre-free agency players.  

The union would do well to tie salaries to revenues, like in most every other sport.  They could have some kind of window, where overall compensation to players has to be between 43-46% of revenues (or whatever they negotiate).  Otherwise they might get a slightly higher percentage in some years or time periods, but there's no stopping teams from dropping that under 40% right now.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

After the owners and players come to an agreement they have to the get the umpires' union to sign off. 

The last ump walkout showed pretty clearly that the umps have almost no leverage.  If they really strike a hard line... they've been replaced once.  It could certainly happen again.  Nothing would accelerate implementation of robot umps like human umps refusing to work.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

The last ump walkout showed pretty clearly that the umps have almost no leverage.  If they really strike a hard line... they've been replaced once.  It could certainly happen again.  Nothing would accelerate implementation of robot umps like human umps refusing to work.

All true but it would complicate matters and slow things down.

[DrungoHazewood]

50 minutes ago, UpstateNYfan said:

Play a regular 10th, or 10th or 11th.....after that each team gets to start a player at 2nd base...see how it goes. Games are long enough, we don't need 15,16 inning games.

I'm torn on this.  Some of the most epic games in Oriole history were extra inning games.  But the fans speak with their feet and their remotes.  By the 14th or 15th inning less people are watching the Orioles than an Elizabethton Twins Appy League game.

Extra innings would be much less of an issue if the first nine didn't take 3.5 hours.  The famous 26-inning Oeschger-Cadore game in 1920 was 3:50.  Today that's called Tuesday's nine-inning Red Sox game.

[jarman86]

I understand Clark's position.  Salary caps are not good for players.  I think the only one even remotely close to good for players is the NBAs, but the amount of math tied into that thing is so confusing, you need a degree in mathematics to understand.  I think a season will be played and players will cave.  MLB is not required to pay the players, but have to keep the CBA together.  If they stop, I believe it would be similar situation NBA is in that it would nullify the CBA, and then you have a whole new issue.  And you have not prepared players to save, so I would assume the minimum guys may be low on money reserves/wanting to earn money and not lose a year of their playing ability.  If they can get language for some special, one year agreement to these terms, that would be I think best outcome.  

[DrungoHazewood]

7 minutes ago, jarman86 said:

And you have not prepared players to save, so I would assume the minimum guys may be low on money reserves/wanting to earn money and not lose a year of their playing ability. 

I wouldn't limit it to the lower-salaried guys.  Don't underestimate the ability of newfound millionaires to spend 120% of their income.  Hey, me, mom, sis, and my buddy Wayne all really needed $880k houses.  And new Mercedeses.  And that tiger.

Something like 50% of NFL players are bankrupt within a couple years of leaving the league.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, DrungoHazewood said:

I wouldn't limit it to the lower-salaried guys.  Don't underestimate the ability of newfound millionaires to spend 120% of their income.  Hey, me, mom, sis, and my buddy Wayne all really needed $880k houses.  And new Mercedeses.  And that tiger.

Every NBA work stoppage.

[UpstateNYfan]

23 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I'm torn on this.  Some of the most epic games in Oriole history were extra inning games.  But the fans speak with their feet and their remotes.  By the 14th or 15th inning less people are watching the Orioles than an Elizabethton Twins Appy League game.

Extra innings would be much less of an issue if the first nine didn't take 3.5 hours.  The famous 26-inning Oeschger-Cadore game in 1920 was 3:50.  Today that's called Tuesday's nine-inning Red Sox game.

I just suggesting it as a good time to experiment with this. It would be a decent sample size. Yes, some become epic, like the Red Wings vs Pawsox in which Ripken played. But overall it's a burden, especially to pitching staffs. IMO game length is a huge problem. I have a suspicion, that an electronic strike zone might speed up the game a bit. Other sports have adapted "overtime" rules that are relatively successful. NHL has particularly made OT better with their 4 on 4 play and shootout. I don't think baseball can go to an eight on opening the field, but there are some things that can be tried.

[Redskins Rick]

18 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Every NBA work stoppage.

John Thomspon Sr when coaching at Georgetown would tell his whole squad in preseason. If one of you makes it to the NBA bench, then you are doing what the numbers say will happen.

But, he also tells those that are drafted, 1 car, 1 house, 1 piece of gold, and ditch the posse hangerons, they are just going to suck you dry of your money.

 

[Oriole1940]

Just leave the best sport ever invented,  ALONE.  As for extra innings, a huge part  of the success of Baseball is the methodical strategy employed.  The world is hustle and bustle, running to its own doom.  Let baseball be the escapism it has always been.  If its working for goodness sake, do not change it.