Did the O's just sign their backup catcher of the future?

[Frobby]

19 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

He had a 105 OPS+.  What hitting are you looking for in a backup catcher?  

Sisco is a really tough player to assess offensively.    His BA is much lower than I would have expected based on his MiL track record, and his K rate is way too high.    But, he walks a ton and he shows decent power.    He has hot streaks where he can look very good for a while, then he has cold streaks where he looks pretty clueless.   There’s a part of me that thinks something could click and he’d be a somewhat valuable player.    Then there’s another part of me that says he’s made slight improvements the last three years but there doesn’t seem to be much more there.    I really wish we’d had a full season to evaluate him on last year.    

Overall, it does seem likely he’ll be at least a slightly above average offensive catcher, even if it’s the walks that distinguish him from being only average or slightly below.    But I’m still hoping there’s more there.   
 

[Redskins Rick]

23 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Sisco is a really tough player to assess offensively.    His BA is much lower than I would have expected based on his MiL track record, and his K rate is way too high.    But, he walks a ton and he shows decent power.    He has hot streaks where he can look very good for a while, then he has cold streaks where he looks pretty clueless.   There’s a part of me that thinks something could click and he’d be a somewhat valuable player.    Then there’s another part of me that says he’s made slight improvements the last three years but there doesn’t seem to be much more there.    I really wish we’d had a full season to evaluate him on last year.    

Overall, it does seem likely he’ll be at least a slightly above average offensive catcher, even if it’s the walks that distinguish him from being only average or slightly below.    But I’m still hoping there’s more there.   
 

Some posters (Not directed at you) were so sure that Sisco was going to end up with better stats than Matt had, when it was all said and done, talk about the hype. 

[Philip]

1 hour ago, Ruzious said:

He had a 105 OPS+.  What hitting are you looking for in a backup catcher?  

I’m surprised he was so high. He looked awful most of the time to me. He struck out a ton. He walked more than I expected from someone who strikes out so much, which is a weird combination, but he just didn’t seem to hit well. And I’ve seen better runners at seniors games.

[Can_of_corn]

34 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Some posters (Not directed at you) were so sure that Sisco was going to end up with better stats than Matt had, when it was all said and done, talk about the hype. 

Who said that?

[Can_of_corn]

13 minutes ago, Philip said:

I’m surprised he was so high. He looked awful most of the time to me. He struck out a ton. He walked more than I expected from someone who strikes out so much, which is a weird combination, but he just didn’t seem to hit well. And I’ve seen better runners at seniors games.

No it isn't.

Have you never heard of a Three True Outcome player?

What an odd thing to say even for you.

[Frobby]

20 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

No it isn't.

Have you never heard of a Three True Outcome player?

What an odd thing to say even for you.

Sisco has a very good eye and is very patient.     But he swings and misses at a lot of hittable pitches.    Last year he made contact on only 73.5% of pitches in the strike zone, compared to 84.2% league average.   That leads to a lot of strikeouts.   

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Sisco has a very good eye and is very patient.     But he swings and misses at a lot of hittable pitches.    Last year he made contact on only 73.5% of pitches in the strike zone, compared to 84.2% league average.   That leads to a lot of strikeouts.   

My point was that lots of players that have a large percentage of both walks and strikeouts.  It is a known(except to Philip) phenomenon.  

[Frobby]

52 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

My point was that lots of players that have a large percentage of both walks and strikeouts.  It is a known(except to Philip) phenomenon.  

Yes, I know that was your point.   Chris Davis was a good example back when he was good.    Tons of examples.    I think the Three True Outcomes has been a widely known phenomenon since Moneyball.

Sisco is a little unusual in that he’s not really a HR guy.    He hits his share, but he’s no pre-2017 Davis in that regard.    So I was trying to analyze why, and show that the strikeouts don’t come from swinging at a lot of pitches outside the zone.  
 

[lovetoaster]

Personally, I was pretty excited when I heard of this signing. I’m biased though, because I worked with Nick’s dad for a handful of years. I’ve never met Nick, but I’ve always heard he is a good kid. 

He obviously has talent, but who knows, sometimes it just takes time for things to click. He was hitting .412 in Spring Training last year with the Rangers before the world fell apart, and maybe he found something with a change to his swing. 

”What has Ciuffo feeling like he’s turned a corner is a completely revamped swing and stance. He described his old stance as generic, but while picking up a bat in the Rangers clubhouse, he shows something completely different.

His hands are low, close to his hips. His legs are much closer together, ready to generate power from a much more hefty leg kick. His stance is modeled pretty heavily off Dodgers third baseman Justin Turner.

“It just releases tension, and you’re able to stay on a direct line, which I never have done before,” Ciuffo said. “The ball is coming from he pitcher’s mound. So everything I do, I work [my swing] toward the pitcher. … I found results from this from Day 1.”

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/rangers/2020/03/11/how-rangers-hitting-instructor-cody-atkinson-helped-change-the-trajectory-of-nick-ciuffos-career/

I thought this article about Ciuffo and some of the changes he made last year was pretty interesting. I’m not counting on him to be the backup catcher in Baltimore, but it’s the definition of an extremely low-risk signing with the potential for a pretty decent reward. 

[Philip]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

Sisco has a very good eye and is very patient.     But he swings and misses at a lot of hittable pitches.    Last year he made contact on only 73.5% of pitches in the strike zone, compared to 84.2% league average.   That leads to a lot of strikeouts.   

If he has a good enough eye to lay off pitches outside the zone, and yet he misses a lot of hittable pitches in the zone, that would indicate he’s vulnerable to certain pitches? So the way to totally kill him is to throw him X pitch in the zone? He’ll miss it three times and sit back down. 
 

[OriolesMagic83]

O's Hall of Fame, class of 2041.  Calling it now. 

[Legend_Of_Joey]

8 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

O's Hall of Fame, class of 2041.  Calling it now. 

What player will he be the “and former teammate of” when he gives the “guest speech” for being there?

[OriolesMagic83]

3 time Cy Young winner Grayson Rodriguez.

[Jammer7]

@Frobby Does Sisco have trouble with a particular pitch in the zone? To me, his bat looks a little slow, especially with the inside fastball. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

@Frobby Does Sisco have trouble with a particular pitch in the zone? To me, his bat looks a little slow, especially with the inside fastball. 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/chance-sisco/15694/heat-maps?position=C&ss=&se=&hand=&count=&pitch=&season=&view=pit&type=11&data=&grid=10&blur=1

Inside fastballs?

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/chance-sisco/15694/heat-maps?position=C&ss=2020-07-24&se=2020-09-27&type=11&hand=all&count=all&blur=1&grid=10&view=pit&pitch=FA&season=all&data=