The Catching Situation

[DrungoHazewood]

3 hours ago, Beef Supreme said:

Not sure I understand your point. Like dWAR, I doubt that any GM uses "Total Zone or UZR or Statcast data as the sole, indisputable measure of a player's skills."

But there are plenty of fans who find WAR or dWAR to be discussion ending, with no nuance accepted. In other words, many use WAR or dWAR as "the sole, indisputable measure of a player's skills." That's not only dull and unintellectual, but foolish.

Please show me some examples.  Because I hear them talked about every day in the context of the threat they are to civilization, but like bigfoot finding one is terribly challenging.

[Beef Supreme]

On 4/4/2021 at 4:24 PM, DrungoHazewood said:

Please show me some examples.  Because I hear them talked about every day in the context of the threat they are to civilization, but like bigfoot finding one is terribly challenging.

Ha! Ever read comments on MLBTR? There is even a comment earlier in this thread that relied solely on WAR to prove a point. The comment asserted that GMs judge players according to a player's worth compared to over replacement level - as opposed to dumb fans, was the gist. I can't imagine professional baseball talent evaluators even using WAR in conversation or determining value going forward anymore with real data - Statcast data on spin, speed, movement, etc. The only time you'd hear it used nowadays by an organizational employee would be lawyers fighting arbitration cases.

[Legend_Of_Joey]

Sisco must have read this board before his at bat.

[DrungoHazewood]

12 hours ago, Beef Supreme said:

Ha! Ever read comments on MLBTR? There is even a comment earlier in this thread that relied solely on WAR to prove a point. The comment asserted that GMs judge players according to a player's worth compared to over replacement level - as opposed to dumb fans, was the gist. I can't imagine professional baseball talent evaluators even using WAR in conversation or determining value going forward anymore with real data - Statcast data on spin, speed, movement, etc. The only time you'd hear it used nowadays by an organizational employee would be lawyers fighting arbitration cases.

Reading comment sections open to the public is like walking around WalMart and asking people probing questions about the works of Tolstoy.  If you're expecting deep and detailed responses you're a little nuts.

Yes, I'll concede that people with only the most superficial understanding of baseball analytics might occasionally use WAR on its own, unquestioningly.  But those are the same people who 25 years ago would tell you of course Juan Gonzalez was the best player in the league, he won the MVP award twice!

[Can_of_corn]

12 hours ago, Beef Supreme said:

Ha! Ever read comments on MLBTR? There is even a comment earlier in this thread that relied solely on WAR to prove a point. The comment asserted that GMs judge players according to a player's worth compared to over replacement level - as opposed to dumb fans, was the gist. I can't imagine professional baseball talent evaluators even using WAR in conversation or determining value going forward anymore with real data - Statcast data on spin, speed, movement, etc. The only time you'd hear it used nowadays by an organizational employee would be lawyers fighting arbitration cases.

That's twice now you've referenced my post.  You do understand that I was making a very simple, narrow point in reaction to what I considered an overly simple point made by another poster.

Both myself and others have made plenty of posts about the various strengths and weaknesses of both Severino and Sisco and how they compare to other catchers.  I felt no need to go into a lengthy post in response to someone who 1- Wouldn't read it and 2- Wouldn't change their mind regardless of the evidence presented.

[Beef Supreme]

7 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

That's twice now you've referenced my post.  You do understand that I was making a very simple, narrow point in reaction to what I considered an overly simple point made by another poster.

Both myself and others have made plenty of posts about the various strengths and weaknesses of both Severino and Sisco and how they compare to other catchers.  I felt no need to go into a lengthy post in response to someone who 1- Wouldn't read it and 2- Wouldn't change their mind regardless of the evidence presented.

OK. that's fine. I purposefully did not reference you directly a second time because I had already quoted you once. 

For what it is worth, I think the bolded part is the most important: Severino and Sisco are the best options the Orioles currently have in their system. 

[Beef Supreme]

7 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Reading comment sections open to the public is like walking around WalMart and asking people probing questions about the works of Tolstoy.  If you're expecting deep and detailed responses you're a little nuts.

Yes, I'll concede that people with only the most superficial understanding of baseball analytics might occasionally use WAR on its own, unquestioningly.  But those are the same people who 25 years ago would tell you of course Juan Gonzalez was the best player in the league, he won the MVP award twice!

Yet another reason why I never shop at Walmart.

Funny thing: after having just railed against some people using the WARs as discussion enders, your post prompted me to refamiliarize myself with Juan G. Looks like he should never have seen the field considering his -11.6 career dWAR (bbref). Even as a 21 year old, he registered a -1.5 dWAR. That's shocking.

[Can_of_corn]

1 hour ago, Beef Supreme said:

OK. that's fine. I purposefully did not reference you directly a second time because I had already quoted you once. 

For what it is worth, I think the bolded part is the most important: Severino and Sisco are the best options the Orioles currently have in their system. 

I do not believe that to be the case.

 

[Beef Supreme]

13 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I do not believe that to be the case.

 

Other than Adley, do you think someone is better in the org currently?

[Hazmat]

Mercedes 485 ft home run.

[Can_of_corn]

2 hours ago, Beef Supreme said:

Other than Adley, do you think someone is better in the org currently?

Other than Adley?  Nope.

 

 

[Beef Supreme]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Other than Adley?  Nope.

When I said the two current catchers were the best options currently in the system, I was acknowledging that Adley is not currently being considered for a roster spot by the front office at this moment in time. Both of us know that we will be waiting for a while on his debut. I agree with you that the Orioles are gaming his service time. And they actually may believe he has to prove more in the minors, regardless of how you or I feel about that. 

[sportsfan8703]

I’m not worried about the catching situation. I think both Catchers have upside with their bats, and nobody runs anymore. Severino is a solid “everyday” Catcher at this point. 

[webbrick2010]

 

53 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I’m not worried about the catching situation. I think both Catchers have upside with their bats, and nobody runs anymore. Severino is a solid “everyday” Catcher at this point. 

Take away Mullins and Severino and the O's team is hitting under .200

Middle infield, actually entire infield is an offensive disaster.

[Redskins Rick]

On 4/8/2021 at 8:19 AM, DrungoHazewood said:

Reading comment sections open to the public is like walking around WalMart and asking people probing questions about the works of Tolstoy.  If you're expecting deep and detailed responses you're a little nuts.

Yes, I'll concede that people with only the most superficial understanding of baseball analytics might occasionally use WAR on its own, unquestioningly.  But those are the same people who 25 years ago would tell you of course Juan Gonzalez was the best player in the league, he won the MVP award twice!

Heck Leno in his street walking, couldnt get correct answers from people for the easy stuff.