I’ve pretty much stopped watching

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'd be aggressive with more than just Adley. 

I'm serious as a heart attack that I would look into giving Gunnar the right 10 year deal and bring him up.  Diaz would have been in the majors last year. 

I'd even look into promoting someone like Maverick.  Can his bat develop in the minors?  If we don't think it can, call him up, the glove is ready.

That’s just ludicrous.   Gunnar is currently hitless in his three games since being promoted to Aberdeen.  Handley has a .645 OPS three.   Promoting those two guys to the majors would be like throwing them into the middle of the Atlantic Ocean to see how long they can swim.   

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

That’s just ludicrous.   Gunnar is currently hitless in his three games since being promoted to Aberdeen.  Handley has a .645 OPS three.   Promoting those two guys to the majors would be like throwing them into the middle of the Atlantic Ocean to see how long they can swim.   

What is ludicrous is you mentioning the fact that Gunnar is hitless IN THREE GAMES as if it means something.

As for Handley I specified his future bat projection.  If you don't think he's ever going to hit why not call him up?  If the glove alone is enough to carry him...the glove is ready.  What's the worst he could do, a full season without an RBI?

Some people actually learn to swim by being thrown into the Atlantic Ocean.

Brooks got thrown into the Atlantic.  Back in the day lots of guys got thrown into the Atlantic.  Sign him to a 10 year deal and let him take his lumps in the majors.

The O's need to take some risks if they are going to compete in the AL East.  Slow and steady doesn't win this race.

[Mondo Trasho]

Back during the pits of 1998-2011 streak, I stopped watching after Bedard was shelved in 2007. He had been one of the only reasons I had been watching (that game he pitched against the Rangers was unreal). It wasn't because I didn't care, it's just...it was too depressing. As that 1997 team retreated further and further into the rear view mirror (I was in 4th grade when they lost to the Indians in that ALCS) turning things around just seemed impossible. That changed in September 2011 when the team just seemed to come alive, especially in that infamous game 162. And obviously the great five year run they had afterwards. 

My feeling when MacPhail came in back in 2007 was that turning the franchise around was a long term thing, like 10+ years. It wasn't about draft picks or particular trades, it was about changing the way they did things from the ground up. Which not only takes time to put in place, it also takes time for the impacts to be seen at the major league level. My fear then (as it is now if I'm honest) was that ownership would not have the patience to see a rebuild through to the end. Meddling owners might give up control in order to win, but giving up control to still be losing wears thin eventually. 

To the original point of this post, I too have stopped watching. I'm not mad, I'm just sad. The team doesn't have to win a pennant for me to watch, it just has to be more exciting. And it's stopped being that. I'm an Orioles fan much more than I've ever been a baseball fan, so even paying super close attention to the minors has never been my thing. I used to be a 13 game plan holder, but as my career has progressed, making the drive up from Virginia has become less and less feasible. I hope fans come back, and I hope TV ratings (or however people end up watching) get better when the team gets more exciting, but honestly, this franchise has been on almost 40 year slide, with brief upticks every so often. And now that is complicated by the return of baseball to DC, especially that team has had some recent success. It might take some work to get fan interest back. 

I don't know, just some random thoughts I guess. But I understand the frustration, I really do. 

[Il BuonO]

1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

I get wanting to see the young players but that doesn’t mean they don’t know what they have. You can be aware of someone’s skills or flaws without them being in the big leagues. There are reasons these guys aren’t up here. 
 

Last year impacted all teams. Unfortunately for the Orioles the 2020 AAA rotation never happened. It’s not like this batch of arms in Baltimore or Norfolk has been pitching at a high level at AAA for over a year. 

And those reasons are? I mean, like I said, everyone knows Lowther and Wells are at best fringe ML players, but I’d still rather see them than retreads. Diaz (when or if he’s ever healthy), too, should be up. AR is the only guy the org can even make a case for playing with his service time, but he should be up. Gr Rod isn’t ready yet. But whoever it is they’re keeping down their reasons aren’t very good ones. If they can bring up Jannis, they can bring up Lowther or Wells.
 

Fans want to see anything is being done and things are being tried. I’ve read more than one post here expressing the teams’ actions are purposefully calculated for them to fail. That’s hurting your prospects (no pun intended) for the short term and hurting fan interest for the long term.

If fans start getting a sense that the Angelos boys are really no different from pops in that Elias ultimately has his hands tied, it could get ugly.

[eddie83]

5 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

And those reasons are? I mean, like I said, everyone knows Lowther and Wells are at best fringe ML players, but I’d still rather see them than retreads. Diaz (when or if he’s ever healthy), too, should be up. AR is the only guy the org can even make a case for playing with his service time, but he should be up. Gr Rod isn’t ready yet. But whoever it is they’re keeping down their reasons aren’t very good ones. If they can bring up Jannis, they can bring up Lowther or Wells.
 

Fans want to see anything is being done and things are being tried. I’ve read more than one post here expressing the teams’ actions are purposefully calculated for them to fail. That’s hurting your prospects (no pun intended) for the short term and hurting fan interest for the long term.

If fans start getting a sense that the Angelos boys are really no different from pops in that Elias ultimately has his hands tied, it could get ugly.

So you are advocating adding in your words “fringe” players? These are fringe players who had no season last year  

 

How many more fringe players do we need? Especially with the pitching staff. Jannis is here to eat innings. That’s it. 
 

Elias is not trying to win now. We all get that. That said he built a pitching staff that is a complete mess. This is not a good way to introduce the young arms to a team. 

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

So you are advocating adding in your words “fringe” players? These are fringe players who had no season last year  

 

How many more fringe players do we need? Especially with the pitching staff. Jannis is here to eat innings. That’s it. 
 

Elias is not trying to win now. We all get that. That said he built a pitching staff that is a complete mess. This is not a good way to introduce the young arms to a team. 

You keep harping that they had no season and while I’m not saying that isn’t a factor, I think you are overblowing it.  First of all, it’s not like they didn’t pitch at all.  They did throw innings here and they did throw at the camp.  While the competition isn’t the same it’s still competitive and it’s still them throwing, developing, working with coaches, technology, etc…. It’s not an excuse for them to come out and not be competitive.

[Frobby]

37 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

What is ludicrous is you mentioning the fact that Gunnar is hitless IN THREE GAMES as if it means something.

As for Handley I specified his future bat projection.  If you don't think he's ever going to hit why not call him up?  If the glove alone is enough to carry him...the glove is ready.  What's the worst he could do, a full season without an RBI?

Some people actually learn to swim by being thrown into the Atlantic Ocean.

Brooks got thrown into the Atlantic.  Back in the day lots of guys got thrown into the Atlantic.  Sign him to a 10 year deal and let him take his lumps in the majors.

The O's need to take some risks if they are going to compete in the AL East.  Slow and steady doesn't win this race.

This may be the worst take I’ve ever seen from you.   Just to address the point about Gunnar being hitless in three games, obviously I’m not saying that’s a significant data set.   But I certainly don’t want a player who has spent three days in Hi A and hasn’t even done anything there to be in he majors.   My attitude wouldn’t really be different if he were batting 1.000 after three games though.   

[eddie83]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You keep harping that they had no season and while I’m not saying that isn’t a factor, I think you are overblowing it.  First of all, it’s not like they didn’t pitch at all.  They did throw innings here and they did throw at the camp.  While the competition isn’t the same it’s still competitive and it’s still them throwing, developing, working with coaches, technology, etc…. It’s not an excuse for them to come out and not be competitive.

That’s fine, I disagree.
 

I’m sure they did the best they could do last year. That said you have a group of pitchers who basically have never pitched at AAA before. You take away their season and think that last year somehow they improved to the point they are ready to pitch at the big leagues collectively. None of these guy have thrown a ton of innings before and then you add last year into the mix. It’s not like there are 3 innings eaters in the rotation. This thing is snowballing out of control. 

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

That’s fine, I disagree.
 

I’m sure they did the best they could do last year. That said you have a group of pitchers who basically have never pitched at AAA before. You take away their season and think that last year somehow they improved to the point they are ready to pitch at the big leagues collectively. None of these guy have thrown a ton of innings before and then you add last year into the mix. It’s not like there are 3 innings eaters in the rotation. This thing is snowballing out of control. 

You don’t need to pitch in AAA.  It’s not a pre-requisite to being a ML starter and Akin did have a full season in AAA.

What the camp accomplished last year was instruction, just like the camp in April this year (where they faced Nationals players).  It wasn’t a lot but it wasn’t Nothing either.  They learned, they got coached, threw the ball, etc…it’s not like they were sitting at home, twiddling their thumbs and then boom, you throw them out to the wolves.

And then they come back and have a full ST.  I expected to see some drop off later in the year, much because of the things you are discussing.  

[jabba72]

25 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You keep harping that they had no season and while I’m not saying that isn’t a factor, I think you are overblowing it.  First of all, it’s not like they didn’t pitch at all.  They did throw innings here and they did throw at the camp.  While the competition isn’t the same it’s still competitive and it’s still them throwing, developing, working with coaches, technology, etc…. It’s not an excuse for them to come out and not be competitive.

 If anything, less stressful throwing for a year should have helped them. 

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, jabba72 said:

 If anything, less stressful throwing for a year should have helped them. 

That’s true too.  They should be fresh, that’s for sure.

[wildcard]

Patience is a tough thing to come up when your team is losing.  Elias seems to have it.  Many fans don't.   Elias seem to want to see a players dominate for 100 AB before promotion.  That is about a month if he plays every day.    Actually by normal standards that is pretty aggressive.

[orioles22]

Nothing the Orioles could do, in my opinion, would be worse than rushing prospects to the majors because fans are bored with watching "retreads." I'd rather watch the Orioles lose now than take a 1 percent chance on messing up the development of the guys who at least give fans hope of a better future.

I know some think AAA is not necessary, but it's been there for many years, so I'd rather they all make a stop there, at least the ones below Machado level, and even Adley when you consider the service time issue.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

That’s just ludicrous.   Gunnar is currently hitless in his three games since being promoted to Aberdeen.  Handley has a .645 OPS three.   Promoting those two guys to the majors would be like throwing them into the middle of the Atlantic Ocean to see how long they can swim.   

I'm not sure why anyone would engage with Corn over the promotions of players and the minor leagues. He's so extreme that he's become a parody of himself, which is hard to do. He's crossed the Jtrea line of lunacy when it comes to this topic.

[eddie83]

40 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You don’t need to pitch in AAA.  It’s not a pre-requisite to being a ML starter and Akin did have a full season in AAA.

What the camp accomplished last year was instruction, just like the camp in April this year (where they faced Nationals players).  It wasn’t a lot but it wasn’t Nothing either.  They learned, they got coached, threw the ball, etc…it’s not like they were sitting at home, twiddling their thumbs and then boom, you throw them out to the wolves.

And then they come back and have a full ST.  I expected to see some drop off later in the year, much because of the things you are discussing.  

You are right about Akin. My bad. 
 

I think for sub elite talents not pitching much at all last year and hardly ever at AAA is a big deal. I’m sure all those things helped as much as possible last year. You also aren’t traveling and going through the rigors of a typical season.