T. Wells is the only reliever on this team capable of being a late inning reliever

[Sports Guy]

32 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

True, I'm just saying repertoire and command wise I like him better than Bradish. As you pointed out, I'd probably start him in the second half and see what he looks like between after 50 pitches, then 75, then up to a 100 pitches to see if his stuff holds up. 

So far they have really babied him rarely letting him go over 25 pitches (9 times) though he has had success in the small sample size between 25-50 pitches. From what I've seen, it's time to take off the kid gloves and let's see what they have. He's 26-years old. 

No question.  Maybe they got lucky, which is great.  But he has shown us that he can be a capable reliever, now let’s see if he can be more.  I know he pitched last night but the plan should have been to give him 3 or more innings as an opener tonight…start stretching him out that way and then let him go starting in late July/early August.

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, interloper said:

BIG DOG LOVE TO EAT

 

You guys need to get a room.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Philip

[HowAboutThat]

44 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

True, I'm just saying repertoire and command wise I like him better than Bradish. As you pointed out, I'd probably start him in the second half and see what he looks like between after 50 pitches, then 75, then up to a 100 pitches to see if his stuff holds up. 

So far they have really babied him rarely letting him go over 25 pitches (9 times) though he has had success in the small sample size between 25-50 pitches. From what I've seen, it's time to take off the kid gloves and let's see what they have. He's 26-years old. 

I’m not sure Hyde even knows what a pitch count is. He consistently leaves a guy in past his comfort limit, even when a guy is clearly Laboring.

[Tony-OH]

Just now, Philip said:

I’m not sure Hyde even knows what a pitch count is. He consistently leaves a guy in past his comfort limit, even when a guy is clearly Laboring.

I'm 100% sure Hyde is very aware of pitch counts with his pitchers. Now he seems to have an issue with those stats that tell him how effective certain pitchers are the after a certain point or after batters face them more than once or twice, but that also may be that he knows his pen is on thin ice and they need to be rested more so he pushes guys.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

And the 2nd best that is healthy.

Not sure I would do more than spot starts this year to limit his innings.    This is the most he has pitched since his TJ surgery.    I'd take it slow. Protect him.  Have him ready for ST next season.  He is too valuable to over use.

I agree.   Let him stick in relief for now and continue to gain experience.  Maybe have him start a couple of games late in the season.  

[NCRaven]

40 minutes ago, Philip said:

I’m not sure Hyde even knows what a pitch count is. He consistently leaves a guy in past his comfort limit, even when a guy is clearly Laboring.

Pushing guys to and past their limits is what a rebuilding team does.  It's how you learn what they're all about.  It's how they learn to be better than they thought that they could be.  It's not about winning in 2021.  It's about forcing players to get better.  I assume that's why people like Corn and SG want to be aggressive in prospect assignments.  Gunnar Henderson is struggling.  He's forced to be outside his comfort zone.  Good.  I think his placement in Delmarva was fine.  I thought the timing of his promotion was fine (that's where I differ with Corn).  I'm actually glad he's struggling to some extent.  It's how you grow.

[Explosivo]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

I don't know about that but if he is, they should be starting him now.  Get a look at him in that role.

I doubt he makes the team as a starter next year if all he does is pitch out of relief this year.

I agree. Switch him and Lopez. I think Lopez could benefit being a reliever and let’s see what Wells can do.

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, Explosivo said:

I agree. Switch him and Lopez. I think Lopez could benefit being a reliever and let’s see what Wells can do.

I really want to see what Lopez can do as a high leverage reliever.  I don’t know how successful he will be but I think it’s been proven time and time again that he isn’t a starter.  I get that he is at least going 4-5 innings and they need that but let’s start putting these guys in roles we need to see them in long term.  
 

I really like Elias and Hyde but I really question the way they are using the roster this year.  

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

I'm 100% sure Hyde is very aware of pitch counts with his pitchers. Now he seems to have an issue with those stats that tell him how effective certain pitchers are the after a certain point or after batters face them more than once or twice, but that also may be that he knows his pen is on thin ice and they need to be rested more so he pushes guys.

Yes, I was engaging in a little bit of hyperbole, I’m sure he knows what a pitch count is, but I’m also sure that he apparently ignores it. Lopez is good for 65 to 70 pitches, rarely is OK a little bit longer, but

 

52 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

Pushing guys to and past their limits is what a rebuilding team does.  It's how you learn what they're all about.  It's how they learn to be better than they thought that they could be.  It's not about winning in 2021.  It's about forcing players to get better.  I assume that's why people like Corn and SG want to be aggressive in prospect assignments.  Gunnar Henderson is struggling.  He's forced to be outside his comfort zone.  Good.  I think his placement in Delmarva was fine.  I thought the timing of his promotion was fine (that's where I differ with Corn).  I'm actually glad he's struggling to some extent.  It's how you grow.

He does it constantly, and the limited guys have been pretty clear about their limits. In the game threads I say something like, “OK he’s made it through five don’t come out for the sixth inning because you’ve thrown this many pitches,”, and he does come out for the fifth inning and he does pitch more and he gets in trouble, leaves with men on base and the rest is up to reliever, and we know how our relievers do. Now occasionally Lopez or whoever has been effective beyond his usual limit, and sometimes a guy goes south in a hurry, But like Earl Weaver said, once a guy shows what he can do, you need to put him in his best position to succeed and not insist on more.

When a guy shows you that his limit is 65 to 70 pitches, you’re playing with fire every time you push it, and it by now we know what the guy can do. I still don’t know why they haven’t paired Lopez and Akin as a tandem.

[maybenxtyr]

2 minutes ago, Philip said:

Yes, I was engaging in a little bit of hyperbole, I’m sure he knows what a pitch count is, but I’m also sure that he apparently ignores it. Lopez is good for 65 to 70 pitches, rarely is OK a little bit longer, but

 

He does it constantly, and the limited guys have been pretty clear about their limits. In the game threads I say something like, “OK he’s made it through five don’t come out for the sixth inning because you’ve thrown this many pitches,”, and he does come out for the fifth inning and he does pitch more and he gets in trouble, leaves with men on base and the rest is up to reliever, and we know how our relievers do. Now occasionally Lopez or whoever has been effective beyond his usual limit, and sometimes a guy goes south in a hurry, But like Earl Weaver said, once a guy shows what he can do, you need to put him in his best position to succeed and not insist on more.

When a guy shows you that his limit is 65 to 70 pitches, you’re playing with fire every time you push it, and it by now we know what the guy can do. I still don’t know why they haven’t paired Lopez and Akin as a tandem.

You can not have a rotation of 5 guys that can only go 65-70 pitches. Hyde has to try and squeeze more each and every night because the bullpen can not pitch 5 innings a night. 

 

I'm not a big fan of Hyde, but this is not on him. Your can't give an employee broken tools for a job and then blame him for substandard work.

[HowAboutThat]

50 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

You can not have a rotation of 5 guys that can only go 65-70 pitches. Hyde has to try and squeeze more each and every night because the bullpen can not pitch 5 innings a night. 

 

I'm not a big fan of Hyde, but this is not on him. Your can't give an employee broken tools for a job and then blame him for substandard work.

If he knows how long his starters can reliably go, and leaves them in past that limit, and gets exactly the result we expect, yes it’s on him

[Explosivo]

1 hour ago, maybenxtyr said:

You can not have a rotation of 5 guys that can only go 65-70 pitches. Hyde has to try and squeeze more each and every night because the bullpen can not pitch 5 innings a night. 

 

I'm not a big fan of Hyde, but this is not on him. Your can't give an employee broken tools for a job and then blame him for substandard work.

Except it’s his job to know how to utilize talent. He doesn’t know how to do that. It’s simple user error. The game last night was textbook in what not to do.

Here are three examples:

1. runners on 1st and second, nobody out, instead of bunting the runners over to force a sac fly situation with your 3 and 4 hitters coming up, you swing away, double play happens and well there ya go

2. batting McKenna 5th. Are you serious? If it weren’t for his speed to avoid the double play he doesn’t get a run in.

3. Leaving Big Tom in put runners on 1st and second. Or bringing in Sulser after the bases were loaded and not with runners on 1st and second. Or bringing in tanner scott who is wild in a high leverage situation and not Wells.

 

I mean, the guy didn’t want us to win. We won in spite of all the decisions he made. Again, it’s all good because this is a lost season anyway, but please stop with this “it’s not Hyde’s fault” commentary. It absolutely is and this team will already be a lot better next year with Hyde going back to being a bench coach for God only knows.

[Sanfran327]

4 hours ago, Hazmat said:

If that's the case, sign me up for 2 more Rule 5 picks next season.  

I have good news for you!

[maybenxtyr]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

If he knows how long his starters can reliably go, and leaves them in past that limit, and gets exactly the result we expect, yes it’s on him

Please explain how you cover the innings?

[maybenxtyr]

41 minutes ago, Explosivo said:

Except it’s his job to know how to utilize talent. He doesn’t know how to do that. It’s simple user error. The game last night was textbook in what not to do.

Here are three examples:

1. runners on 1st and second, nobody out, instead of bunting the runners over to force a sac fly situation with your 3 and 4 hitters coming up, you swing away, double play happens and well there ya go

2. batting McKenna 5th. Are you serious? If it weren’t for his speed to avoid the double play he doesn’t get a run in.

3. Leaving Big Tom in put runners on 1st and second. Or bringing in Sulser after the bases were loaded and not with runners on 1st and second. Or bringing in tanner scott who is wild in a high leverage situation and not Wells.

 

I mean, the guy didn’t want us to win. We won in spite of all the decisions he made. Again, it’s all good because this is a lost season anyway, but please stop with this “it’s not Hyde’s fault” commentary. It absolutely is and this team will already be a lot better next year with Hyde going back to being a bench coach for God only knows.

1. The sacrifice bunt could go either way...not going to argue that.

2. Would you have batted Severino, Leyba, Urias, or the mighty Valaika fifth? Not a lot of tools there.

3. Big Tom is the case in point about not having players that can be relied upon. 3.2 out of the starter is exactly why I said what I said earlier.

It's easy to arm chair manage, but you offered zero solutions with the pitching. Once again 130 starts of 4 innings covers only 520 off a potential 1500 innings. Something has to give.