Olney on O’s losing

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

The cupboard wasn’t bare.  Baumann, GRod, Mountcastle, Mullins, Means, Mancini and Hall are just examples of guys who were here.   A lot of the guys that have our system ranked high were here before Elias signed and Adley was delivered to him on a silver platter.  

It’s a complete fallacy that the cupboard was bare.

Of course, Baumann, GRod, and Hall are still in the minors and you give no credit to the current regime for Mullins and Means (two lowly rated prospects) blossoming over the last 2 years.      

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

 

You sound like you are working for the Orioles ticket department.   They've stunk for 5 years and as you said, most of the last 25 years, yet you act as if one more year is going to be the death knell to the team's future in Baltimore.

No I don’t act like that.  You just poorly interpret it like that.  There is a difference.

Maybe you don’t see value in the team being more competitive to the average fan.  But I do.  Don’t really care if you don’t.

[RZNJ]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

No I don’t act like that.  You just poorly interpret it like that.  There is a difference.

Maybe you don’t see value in the team being more competitive to the average fan.  But I do.  Don’t really care if you don’t.

That value is in decreased attendance and decreased viewership.   The other side of the coin is the money they aren't spending on the ML product on the field currently.   They must feel like it's worth it to take the hit for now.    You don't.    I don't really care.   It is what it is.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Of course, Baumann, GRod, and Hall are still in the minors and you give no credit to the current regime for Mullins and Means (two lowly rated prospects) blossoming over the last 2 years.      

Why don’t I give them credit?  Of course I do.  I give more credit for them for Means than Mullins unless they were the ones who pushed him to drop switch hitting.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, RZNJ said:

That value is in decreased attendance and decreased viewership.   The other side of the coin is the money they aren't spending on the ML product on the field currently.   They must feel like it's worth it to take the hit for now.    You don't.    I don't really care.   It is what it is.

I’m so glad I know where you stand.  It will help my sleep tonight.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Of course, Baumann, GRod, and Hall are still in the minors and you give no credit to the current regime for Mullins and Means (two lowly rated prospects) blossoming over the last 2 years.      

If we want to start giving credit for players blossoming then we need to look at players like Sisco and Diaz that haven't exactly blossomed.

Some guys will exceed expectations and others will fail to meet them.  Some guys will respond to a particular coach and some won't.

 

[RZNJ]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Why don’t I give them credit?  Of course I do.  I give more credit for them for Means than Mullins unless they were the ones who pushed him to drop switch hitting.

 

If you think the only reason Mullins blossomed is because he dropped switch hitting then you are lost.   Sure, it was a big part of it but he made major strides as a LH hitter as well.    

[RZNJ]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

I’m so glad I know where you stand.  It will help my sleep tonight.

I don't really care about that either.

[Explosivo]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The cupboard wasn’t bare.  Baumann, GRod, Mountcastle, Mullins, Means, Mancini and Hall are just examples of guys who were here.   A lot of the guys that have our system ranked high were here before Elias signed and Adley was delivered to him on a silver platter.  

It’s a complete fallacy that the cupboard was bare.

Yes there are some players that stick out but is that a complete team? Of course not. How many players are in the minor and major league systems? Of course you can pick out less than 10 guys at all levels that are quality. You could do the same for the diamondbacks and rangers too and they are worse than us. That’s a ridiculous take dude. Point is, we had a window of opportunity and won the AL east with it in 2014. Those windows can be extended if teams have the money to keep them going. For all others, they must rebuild and do it again. That takes time, luck, and damn good scouts and coaches who are all on the same page. Elias has proven he can get that done and we are on the same trajectory as the Astros to see that same window of success in two years time. The goal of this season is to develop talent at all levels. We are doing that.

[RZNJ]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

If we want to start giving credit for players blossoming then we need to look at players like Sisco and Diaz that haven't exactly blossomed.

Some guys will exceed expectations and others will fail to meet them.  Some guys will respond to a particular coach and some won't.

 

Do you think we have a poor talent evaluation team in place?   A poor developmental team in place?      

[Frobby]

23 minutes ago, Ripken said:

While I sincerely (almost desperately) hope he's doing the draft and develop part well... we don't know yet.

Correct.  There are some encouraging signs, other things that give me some worry, but we are probably two years away from having things really come into pretty clear focus.   

[Sports Guy]

10 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

 

If you think the only reason Mullins blossomed is because he dropped switch hitting then you are lost.   Sure, it was a big part of it but he made major strides as a LH hitter as well.    

No sh**.  But it’s a big thing for him.  But of course the team gets credit for them.  I never said otherwise.

[eddie83]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

The reaction From Os fans about a Olney saying this is hysterical.

Baltimore fans have such an inferiority complex.

Btw, more from Buster:

 

I feel like laughing out loud. Once again he talks about 2018. Keeps ignoring they viewed themselves as contenders and spent a ton of money that year. Still not sure why the Rays and A’s were brought up. Did either ever go for broke like the Orioles? This is year 3 of rebuild for the Orioles no matter how that fool frames it. 
 

The funniest part is his quoting Dayton Moore. He said Moore “hates tanking.” What moves did Moore make to improve the 18-20 Royals? I guess this past offseason of Minor, Santana and Taylor was a stab at the World Series. What a joke. It’s OK for KC to lose 100 games twice and in year 4 of their rebuild they sign those 3 and trade for Benintendi and he acts like they are the Tank Police. It’s comical. Moore and Olney are the bull crap brothers. 

[Can_of_corn]

35 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Do you think we have a poor talent evaluation team in place?   A poor developmental team in place?      

I don't think it's poor.

I don't think it's particularly adept.

 

[foxfield]

39 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t get why Elias can’t improve the system, play the Intl game, draft and develop well and put a better ML Product on the field?

Why does it have to be either/or?  Why is it so many teams can accomplish both and yet it’s a big deal if he does only part of the job?

The first sentence is being done now, except for the ML product on the field.  And I think this entire thread basically confirms that.  The issue is the second sentence.  I don't have an answer, but really there is no reason that both cannot be done, outside of MONEY.

So what teams have accomplished both coming out of 1) Going for it like the O's (in 2017 and winning 47 games) and 2) Giving out the worst contract in the history of baseball.

This thread has been insightful.  There is some legitimate debate and some flaming going on...which of course is natural.  

The Orioles are terrible, and when Houston was at this point they were drawing attention from the Baseball writers too.  I do not believe the Orioles can phone in another season in 2022.  

But even though Covid has impacted all of baseball and especially minor league development...for everyone...The Orioles appear to be the track that has been fairly well laid out for everyone.  Most all of this coincides with next year being the last yer of the Chris Davis contract.

It is inarguable that the Orioles could have spent 20 or 40 Million and been a more legitimate team.  It is debatable that they could have won more than about 70 games. How about we all agree that there were different things that could have been done since 2017 and agree that in 2022, it is time to focus and see some results at the ML level.  But again, for all of the examples that you are looking at of teams doing both....none are saddled with Chris Davis' contract and none are owned by the Angelos'...

If we are winning 60 games in 2022, I will have a problem.  I expect 2022 to be a transition year and I expect to compete in 2023.  Ultimate test is gonna be will ownership spend as talent arrives.  I think they might but on that I am not convinced.