Elias Q&A with Meoli

[Frobby]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

This is very simple.  The Os RECENTLY spent a ton of money on payroll.

Their payroll is going to look like it did in the 90s and things are a wee bit different now than they were then.

Its a joke and it’s not justifiable.  They are stealing from the fans and, quite frankly, the players too.  They are robbing everyone of a chance at being a competitive and representative team and they are doing it while hiding behind the idea that they need to keep rebuilding.  It’s a joke and it’s even worse that fans both on this site and everywhere else actually buy into it.

 

Why is the first sentence relevant?  We all understand that the O’s can spend at least in the mid-100’s range (say $140-160 mm) when the situation warrants it.   That said, we spent $161 mm on a 47-win team, so spending doesn’t necessarily mean winning.   But I want them to spend when it puts us in position to contend, and is sustainable.   

 

[wildcard]

Hard to find Angel counties.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

Hard to find Angel counties.

Did you look in Japan?

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Hard to find Angel counties.

They’re big up in Heaven.  

[Sports Guy]

11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Why is the first sentence relevant?  We all understand that the O’s can spend at least in the mid-100’s range (say $140-160 mm) when the situation warrants it.   That said, we spent $161 mm on a 47-win team, so spending doesn’t necessarily mean winning.   But I want them to spend when it puts us in position to contend, and is sustainable.   

 

Because certain people are trying to pretend that the Os are some destitute small market team that needs to save their pennies to scrape by.

They have plenty of money and can do basically anything they want.  Let’s not fool ourselves.  This is based off of a desire of them not wanting to do these things to try to be more competitive now.

[sportsfan8703]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Because certain people are trying to pretend that the Os are some destitute small market team that needs to save their pennies to scrape by.

They have plenty of money and can do basically anything they want.  Let’s not fool ourselves.  This is based off of a desire of them not wanting to do these things to try to be more competitive now.

Notice how you really don’t even see people map out the team for next year on here that much because the rotation is disgusting. How can you when with this?

 Means, Lowther, Zimmerman, Akin, Baumann. GR after 6/1

That’s a 100 loss team. This is easy. Just facts. 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Notice how you really don’t even see people map out the team for next year on here that much because the rotation is disgusting. How can you when with this?

 Means, Lowther, Zimmerman, Akin, Baumann. GR after 6/1

That’s a 100 loss team. This is easy. Just facts. 

But once all the pitching in the minors comes up things will look a lot better.

[Frobby]

12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Because certain people are trying to pretend that the Os are some destitute small market team that needs to save their pennies to scrape by.

They have plenty of money and can do basically anything they want.  Let’s not fool ourselves.  This is based off of a desire of them not wanting to do these things to try to be more competitive now.

Well, I think any rational person knows that they can spend a lot more money than they’re spending now.   Really, all we should be debating is whether they should do that.   That said, there are two points worth making:

1.   It’s not necessarily the case that because they spent $161 mm one time, they could spend that much every year.   They may have used savings from prior years to subsidize the more competitive years.   In fact, that’s one of the arguments for not spending now — to have funds available for when they need it.

2.   The economics of the team have gotten worse in certain respects, with shrinking attendance and the MASN rulings that have rendered MASN far less profitable for the O’s than it used to be.   

With those two caveats, there’s no reason the O’s can’t run a much larger payroll than they currently are when that makes sense.  
 

[sportsfan8703]

14 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

But once all the pitching in the minors comes up things will look a lot better.

That’s why We have to look for pitching in deals for Mullins and Means. Draft Andruw Jones’ son #1 this year to replace Mullins. He’s looking like the best prospect anyway. I know a lot can change. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Well, I think any rational person knows that they can spend a lot more money than they’re spending now.   Really, all we should be debating is whether they should do that.   That said, there are two points worth making:

1.   It’s not necessarily the case that because they spent $161 mm one time, they could spend that much every year.   They may have used savings from prior years to subsidize the more competitive years.   In fact, that’s one of the arguments for not spending now — to have funds available for when they need it.

2.   The economics of the team have gotten worse in certain respects, with shrinking attendance and the MASN rulings that have rendered MASN far less profitable for the O’s than it used to be.   

With those two caveats, there’s no reason the O’s can’t run a much larger payroll than they currently are when that makes sense.  
 

They have known about the MASN stuff for a while.  This isn’t new for them and they are making a ton of money regardless.

I don’t expect them to spend that every year.  In fact, I hope they don’t because if they don’t, it tells me they are making start player decisions and not keeping all players till later in their arb years and/or signing a lot of free agents.

[now]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

1.   It’s not necessarily the case that because they spent $161 mm one time, they could spend that much every year.   They may have used savings from prior years to subsidize the more competitive years.   In fact, that’s one of the arguments for not spending now — to have funds available for when they need it.

That's a great point to explain the strategy... whether we agree with it or not. Another way to look at is, given the same budget (and presumably, wins) over the long term, would you rather buy wins like this:
60 - 70 - 80 - 90
or this:
50 - 60 - 90 - 100
?

I think there's another smart or prudent aspect in waiting... waiting to see what we actually have in young homegrown players, rather than betting big on a core before they're proven. 
 

[rm5678]

5 hours ago, wildcard said:

Hard to find Angel counties.

Even harder to find Oakland A's counties.

[now]

18 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Its a joke and it’s not justifiable.  They are stealing from the fans and, quite frankly, the players too.  They are robbing everyone of a chance at being a competitive and representative team and they are doing it while hiding behind the idea that they need to keep rebuilding.  It’s a joke and it’s even worse that fans both on this site and everywhere else actually buy into it.

Just wondering, how many wins would satisfy your desire for "competitive and representative"? (Assuming that it translates to wins; but please clarify if that's not the case).

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, now said:

Just wondering, how many wins would satisfy your desire for "competitive and representative"? (Assuming that it translates to wins; but please clarify if that's not the case).

There is zero reason that the 2022 team can’t be put in position to win 70-80 games, be more competitive night in and night out, all the while looking towards the long term as well.

[now]

35 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

There is zero reason that the 2022 team can’t be put in position to win 70-80 games, be more competitive night in and night out, all the while looking towards the long term as well.

The reason presumably is that ownership prefers to allot its resources to a more likely contender than the 2022 team. If it was your money, wouldn't you do the same? Or do you think (like most govts these days) you can just spend more now and lots more later?